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Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by shriphani on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:03AM (#14104504)
As Nicholas Taleb put it - stuff that is natural is time-tested. Food we've grown + consumed has a multi-millennium history of being safe to consume. The burden of proof is on the synthetic. And health issues can materialize with a time gap of a decade or so - essentially you can ruin a couple of generations with a mistake you didn't catch in time.

It doesn't help when those who have to prove their validity have to resort to regulatory capture so often.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by sametmax on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:15AM (#14104559)
Particularly, they have been time-tested in a complex system.

Our tests are not only limited in time, but also in complexity. Scientists take a sample of subjects in a defined environment. The benefit of that is that they can draw definitive conclusions because of the manageable variables. The problem with it is that you fail to see the big picture, the many interactions with the numerous components of a real life activity, and on the long run.

When talking about living things and food, or in that case, living things that are food, the context is incredibly important to define what is safe or not.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by 0xfeba on Thursday April 13, 2017 @09:54AM (#14106883)
> Food we've grown + consumed has a multi-millennium history of being safe

The food we consume now has little resemblance past a visual one (and even not that in some cases), to food of the past.

Time-tested? Only in the past 60 years or so have we actually been able to begin to understand the effects of any food, natural or GMO. That our ancestors didn't keel over immediately after consuming these "same" foods does not mean they are anymore "safe to consume" than GMO foods.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by Tycho on Thursday April 13, 2017 @02:14PM (#14109517)
> That our ancestors didn't keel over immediately after consuming these "same" foods does not mean they are anymore "safe to consume" than GMO foods.

I think this is the wrongest statement I've ever read on HN.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by rhizome on Thursday April 13, 2017 @01:44PM (#14109219)
The food we consume now has little resemblance past a visual one (and even not that in some cases), to food of the past.

When did strawberries change?

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by lkbm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:26PM (#14111851)
Looks like we first cultivated "garden strawberries" in 1714[1]. Before that we just had "wild strawberries", which are small and not very sweet. I don't know now they've changed nutritionally (probably more sugar), and I doubt they've changed chemically.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by lambdadmitry on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:06AM (#14106075)
>stuff that is natural is time-tested

Unfortunately "time" doesn't test for cancerogenicity, as laypeople are terrible at inferring causality that may span months or years. Case in point [1]: several "herbal remedies" used in China for hundreds of years are linked to kidney failure and kidney cancer.

We don't know if something is dangerous until we deliberately and scientifically test it. Given that "non-natural" stuff (e.g. GMO) is thoroughly tested, I would expect that it's way safer than "natural" one that was never really tested.

[1]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/1343598/Chinese-herb-...

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by tptacek on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:55AM (#14106390)
This is a fallacy. All sorts of things are time-tested, in some cases over a millennium, and turn out to be carcinogenic: lutefisk, for instance, or the scalding hot tea Iranians drink.
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by shriphani on Thursday April 13, 2017 @10:44PM (#14112397)
I'm talking conditional probabilities here. Conditioned on the natural, our track record isn't bad. Conditioned on synthetic substances, just in the last century we have thalidomide, high-fructose corn syrup and this wonderful collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Withdrawn_drugs
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by cmdrfred on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:20AM (#14105376)
>Food we've grown + consumed has a multi-millennium history of being safe to consume.

Its not so simple. When you consider the significantly lower yields of organic farming[0], combined with a growing world population 71% of which lives on less than $10 a day[1] that will not be able to afford these increased food costs you are left with a question. Do you prefer to add perhaps a few years to the end of your life or do you prefer to allow a great many others to live?

Personally even if GMO and others took a decade from me (I have seen no evidence this is the case. Humans are living longer lives than ever before.) if it allows more children to eat I support it.

[0]https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/20... [1]http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/08/news/economy/global-low-inco...

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by pjc50 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @05:48AM (#14105473)
> stuff that is natural is time-tested

This also applies to tobacco.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by AstralStorm on Thursday April 13, 2017 @06:19AM (#14105596)
It does, but not really to smoking. Tobacco is far safer chewed or insufflated than smoked, and cigarettes have a bunch of additional terrible chemicals in them.
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by tptacek on Thursday April 13, 2017 @08:56AM (#14106394)
It is not in fact safe to chew tobacco.
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by petre on Saturday April 15, 2017 @01:25AM (#14119524)
You can get gum and other mouth cancers.
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by LordKano on Thursday April 13, 2017 @10:59AM (#14107501)
Any burning organic matter will contain carcinogens. Breathing a constant supply of wood smoke will wreak havoc on one's lungs.

I'd be curious to find out if there's any place with a history of consumption of fresh tobacco leaves as a food item.

Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by sjg007 on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:46PM (#14110784)
No. You would get tobacco sickness.
Re:Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety i... by bojan on Thursday April 13, 2017 @04:40AM (#14105220)
Is it really (time-)tested? How do we know what is safe to consume, especially long-term? We don't really have proper data to support most claims. We did not track and log the causes of death throughout the vast majority of our history.