News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by tombert on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @10:51AM (#14098188)
The performance of OpenCL has generally been fine for me, particularly on AMD GPUs, but I have to say I think CUDA is a lot simpler to work with.

OpenCL is one of those things that I never felt fully comfortable working with, but I felt productive in CUDA after a week or two. Granted, I learned them in that order, so it's possible that CUDA got an unfair head-start, but I stand by my initial thesis.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by lettergram on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:13AM (#14098442)
I tried picking up OpenCL then CUDA as well and had a similar experience.

CUDA simply feels less hacked together to me. It's like working with a well thought out and documented code base (CUDA) vs working with some library that has little documentation and contradicting syntax and formats (OpenCL).

IMO that's why AMD is losing the "deep learning" battle, it's just not easy to develop using OpenCL. At least, not as easy as it should be.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by happycube on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:22AM (#14098543)
Losing? When it comes to TensorFlow et al they haven't really shown up for the fight.

It's a vicious cycle though, since everything uses CUDA/CuDNN everyone buys nVidia cards, which means that developer interest in getting AMD cards fast isn't there.

If AMD GPU cores were in phones etc, they would probably be getting TF support for client work at least. Heck, considering they sold off that dept to Qualcomm, which is getting supported...

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by lettergram on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:33AM (#14098657)
There's really no reason AMD themselves couldn't hire 5 developers to integrate with TensorFlow. I agree it's a vicious cycle, but I feel if they release support for tensorflow it wouldn't take long to shift people from Nvidia to AMD. AMD has a significantly cheaper offering, and no company wants to be tied by only one supplier.

Considering how small of a dent that would make in their bottom line (financially), it's really amazing they haven't yet... The potentially upside is easily in the tens (if not hundreds) of millions of dollars.

So definitely, I agree they intentionally have decided to not support deep learning. For the life of me, I don't know why.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by happycube on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @02:00PM (#14100094)
Looking at things some more, it seems they are working on it... just a year or two after it needed to be done. :P

https://github.com/GPUOpen-ProfessionalCompute-Tools/HIP/iss...

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by ansible on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:01PM (#14098962)
There's really no reason AMD themselves couldn't hire 5 developers to integrate with TensorFlow.

The problem is that it isn't just TensorFlow. It is also Caffe, Theano, Torch, etc., etc., etc.. For deep learning, Nvidia GPU acceleration is almost a given.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by lettergram on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:31PM (#14099259)
If AMD can write an abstraction layer similar to CuDNN, and write the initial integration to TensorFlow and Caffee I think they'd gain enough community support to finish out the rest.

80% of deep learning users use the TensorFlow, Caffe, or Torch frameworks.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by shawn-butler on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:11AM (#14098415)
You might want to take a look at SYCL for higher-level abstractions if that was your preference.

There is an open-source implementation to dig into: https://github.com/Xilinx/triSYCL

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by tombert on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:22AM (#14098537)
Actually, nowadays since I mostly do esoteric functional stuff, I mostly use the wonderful `accelerate` package for Haskell: https://www.stackage.org/package/accelerate

It abstracts away most of the difficult stuff.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by Athas on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:48PM (#14099419)
Out of curiosity, what are you doing with Accelerate? I've been looking for examples of people using it in anger.
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by tombert on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @01:04PM (#14099563)
I can't get into the weeds of it because of some NDA chicanery, but there are a couple vector transformations that I have to do on a not-quite-big-data-but-also-too-big-for-regular-CPU set of data. The initial version of the project was doing some basic stuff in Python, but that proved to be slow so I rewrote most of it in Haskell and Accelerate.
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by rodburns on Monday April 17, 2017 @06:36AM (#14130142)
In addition to triSYCL we also have an implementation of SYCL called ComputeCpp http://computecpp.codeplay.com/
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by tmbsundar on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:17AM (#14098488)
Does freebsd support CUDA yet? I tried a year back and it didn't, due to limitations from NVIDIA side.

I like freebsd a lot, but for this reason had to switch back to debian/ kubuntu.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by jacquesm on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:34AM (#14098667)
The question should be is NVIDIA supporting FreeBSD yet?

And the answer is so far not. And likely it won't happen, they are supporting Linux because it is a large enough target for their scientific customers, FreeBSD just does not have the market share there.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by floatboth on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:53AM (#14098883)
NVIDIA actually releases their proprietary GPU driver for FreeBSD! Has been doing that for a long long time. Also for Solaris.
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by jacquesm on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @11:55AM (#14098905)
Yes, but that's not CUDA, just the basic acceleration.

For CUDA supported are Windows, Linux, Mac OSX

https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-downloads

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by floatboth on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:18PM (#14099135)
Yes, and "is NVIDIA supporting FreeBSD yet" sounds like "do they have anything for FreeBSD at all"
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by jacquesm on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:53PM (#14099475)
Right, but the thread here was: "Does freebsd support CUDA yet?" and that was the wrong way around.

So all this in the context of CUDA. Sorry for messing that line up.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by astrodust on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:39PM (#14099322)
Is FreeBSD supporting the Linux binary-blob format yet?
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by floatboth on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @12:51PM (#14099448)
Not for drivers, of course
Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by astrodust on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @03:40PM (#14101036)
If the FreeBSD and Linux groups could agree on some kind of standard for binary-blob video drivers, the world would probably be a better place.

Even better if there were open-source drivers, but you know, baby steps.

Re:Blender 2.79: OpenCL on par with CUDA by floatboth on Wednesday April 12, 2017 @04:31PM (#14101461)
Agreeing on a kernel ABI? ha ha not gonna happen :D

There are open source drivers. Only on nvidia they (nouveau) are seriously worse than the proprietary ones. For Intel GPUs, the open source driver is the only driver. For AMD, there are some proprietary drivers but they are becoming obsolete, the fully open amdgpu stack is getting better and better all the time.