The US does legitimately have an imperfect human rights track record, and most Americans who follow the news would agree (while at the same time being aware of China's own hypocrisy in this matter)

Likewise, Russia has a well documented history of sponsoring online propaganda campaigns, and most people who aren't delusional or paid shills would agree.

Two negative things about two different countries can in fact both be based in truth. Weird.

It should be obvious that the USA is not a singular political whole.

So why do we say "the Russians" and "the Chinese" as though they each form a political whole.

I mean, we know the CIA gets up to some pretty nefarious shenanigans, quite possibly without the express approval of The Administration.

It just seems like a lot of pots sitting around talking about how black the kettles are. Sure, some kettles are blacker than some pots.

paradite is saying it's not well documented. It's poorly documented by people highly incentivised to lie.

But hey, if you already wrote off anyone who disagrees as "delusional or paid shills" then you're too far gone to reason with. Literally nothing anybody ever says can make you think twice.

> poorly documented

Uh huh

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolls_from_Olgino

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/st-petersburg-troll-factory-...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-...

https://www.inopressa.ru/article/03Jun2014/buzzfeed/web_rus....

https://globalvoices.org/2015/04/02/analyzing-kremlin-twitte...

> if you already wrote off anyone who disagrees as "delusional or paid shills" then you're too far gone to reason with. Literally nothing anybody ever says can make you think twice.

Not true, but it would definitely take more than that hand-wavy uncertainty yarn you're trying to spin

Both the NY Times and the Guardian seem to hate Russia and all things Russian. I constantly read things in those publications that are ludicrously biased or simply wrong. They don't count as credible sources to me anymore.

And as was already pointed out, you stated that "Russia sponsors" but even the first article states that the alleged project is the work of one guy who apparently has money to burn - not the government.

I honestly think HN is the target of some of these trolls as well.

A significant percentage of younger (as well as non-younger for that matter) people have practically no exposure to mainstream media, so naturally one should expect propaganda (from the various players) will be brought to online forums of all kinds.

I feel HN has been specifically targeted as a source of above-average discourse, therefore it must be comprised.