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Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by peterwwillis on Thursday April 06, 2017 @05:56PM (#14055035)
Most distros have different package managers, different flavors of compiled and packaged software, different libraries, different system management tools, and different kernel versions. Yet you switched distributions because of the two whole different methods of start-up scripts. The one thing that only has to be written once, and then forgotten about forever.
Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by rtpg on Friday April 07, 2017 @12:28AM (#14057132)
Isn't this the point though?

We're moving more and more to having unified low-level services across Unices, so it stops being about stupid things like "Oh sorry, Arch can't run this because it uses its own audio stack even if we're just using audio to make a notification sound", and starts being about the things that are fundamentally different about the systems.

Think about how nice it is that we don't have to recompile most things for most kernel versions. Why do we have to set up multiple startup script mechanisms?

Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by peterwwillis on Friday April 07, 2017 @01:44PM (#14061842)
> Think about how nice it is that we don't have to recompile most things for most kernel versions.

Yes, nobody has ever had to recompile their application to work on a new kernel. If you mean that's nice that there's binary backwards compatibility, I agree. I don't see what this has to do with supporting multiple systems.

> Why do we have to set up multiple startup script mechanisms?

Why do we have to support multiple <insert any kind of software> ?

> We're moving more and more to having unified low-level services across Unices

AFAIK, the only thing I know of moving toward middleware unification specifically is Linux desktop software. Choosing to use systemd in exclusion of everything else is "unification" in the same way that nationalism/xenophobia/homophobia are. (i'm aware of how mean that sounds, but it's the closest comparison I can think of)

It is certainly nice that there is now middleware that abstracts the underlying software that controls the hardware, for example, or that authentication and authorization are more uncoupled. But this is really almost the opposite of what systemd does.

Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by mgbmtl on Friday April 07, 2017 @02:30PM (#14062295)
Trivial example: Debian vs Ubuntu, when Ubuntu used upstart. Now I don't need to worry about process management anymore and can provide better Ubuntu support.

Although I'm speaking with my sysadmin hat (I have a few hats). I have a lot of software deployed/managed through Ansible (from node/ruby/python apps to proprietary apps). They might not provide a unit file, so I have to write my own (and I might send it upstream).

The main pain point I encountered regularly, was making sure that the process starts at the right time, has proper stderr logging and monitoring. I rarely bump into kernel or library problems (but that's just me, I'm not denying the problem). I understand what you mean though, systemd is just one of the base components. It doesn't fix everything, but it helps.

On "write once": I feel bad for people who have to read the shell scripts I've written. I think they're good and I'm a fan of keeping it simple, but my scripts don't come with a manual. Any junior dev can understand my unit files (tangential: that's also why I like Ansible/Puppet/etc).

Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by collinmanderson on Friday April 07, 2017 @12:15PM (#14060949)
This exactly. I was quite happy when I learned about systemd and learned that it was coming in Ubuntu. I want a distro-agnostic easy way to keep programs running. init files were way too complicated, and upstart scripts were not distro-agnostic.

I didn't write upstart units for that reason. I now write systemd units and it's wonderful.

Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by mintplant on Thursday April 06, 2017 @08:22PM (#14055968)
Messing with sysvinit scripts is just that painful.
Re:A Thank-You Note to the Hacker News Community from Ubuntu by tomc1985 on Thursday April 06, 2017 @09:31PM (#14056319)
I still don't understand how sysv scripts can be so long and hard-to-read for such a simple task.