That's a great analogy thanks. I still have the scars of doing the JS powering a crazy UX related to a time-chart zooming in and out with various aggregation level filters. On the other hand, when I told the designers to do X (just change this div to be beveled) they said they wouldn't, I needed to add the divs around it and they wouldn't (couldn't) change the CSS rules to make the UI changes. Sometimes it seems backwards to me, coming from a declarative UI background.