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Re:What I Learned Managing Site Reliability for Some of the ... by vacri on Tuesday April 04, 2017 @09:41PM (#14038970)
Datadog for thousands of hosts costs tens of thousands of dollars per month. That is not a low barrier. But if you're arguing for external vendors, then Papertrail is to logs what Datadog is to metrics. And having tried both Papertrail is easier and quicker to set up (though Datadog isn't difficult).

Similarly, basic infrastructure health is not giving you the same sort of information (what the software is actually doing) that logging does. In order to do time-series monitoring of your software rather than your system, you need to spend time thinking about what metrics you need to track and how you're going to obtain them.

I run both an ELK stack and a Prometheus stack, and I find they're good for different things.

Re:What I Learned Managing Site Reliability for Some of the ... by otisg on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @10:14PM (#14047395)
Any modern monitoring service will provide you with volume discounts if you have hundreds or thousands of servers.

Since you mention Papertrail specifically in the context of costs - Papertrail is actually a bit pricey relative to the competition. For example, compare https://papertrailapp.com/plans to https://sematext.com/logsene/#plans-and-pricing . I think Sematext Logsene is 2-3 times cheaper than Papertrail.

Lastly, I was at a Cloud Native Conference in Berlin last week. A lot of people have the same setup as you - ELK for logs + Prometheus for metrics. We're running Sematext Cloud where we ship both our metrics and our logs, so we can easily switch between metrics and logs much more easily, correlate, and troubleshoot faster. Seems a bit simpler than ELK+Prometheus...

Re:What I Learned Managing Site Reliability for Some of the ... by user5994461 on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @08:27AM (#14041561)
thousands of hosts costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. a few thousands more is a low barrier.

Sumologic, papertrail, logentries (and many more) for cloud logs. Graylog or ELK or Splunk for self hosted logs.

However, logs should never be send to the cloud, they are too sensitive information to outsource. Server metrics + stats are more reasonable.

Agree, stats and logs cover different things. Need both.

Re:What I Learned Managing Site Reliability for Some of the ... by otisg on Wednesday April 05, 2017 @10:07PM (#14047372)
Both metrics and logs are needed for the full picture (plus alerts and a few other things, like RUM and error/exception capture, both on front-end and backend).

Saying that logs should never be sent to the cloud is overly absolute. Some logs should indeed stay behind firewall, but lots of organizations have logs that can be shipped out to services whose features derive all kinds of interesting insights from logs.