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Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by tscs37 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @02:58AM (#13974643)
Apparently The Mirror was not ready for the sudden influx of readers...

Though, on the article, Germany is hardly ready for the Startup boom, the bureaucracy is hell.

I have been thinking about going self-employed as a sidejob, boost my student-income a bit.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by moreentropy on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:34AM (#13975021)
> Apparently The Mirror was not ready for the sudden influx of readers...

Spiegel online is huge, that extra bit of traffic shouldn't bother them, see http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/spiegel.de

Right now the site is down supposedly because of a power outage in a data center. Can't remember the last time spiegel online was offline, the outage is so high profile that #spiegelonline is trending in .de

Right now Spiegel is resorting to publishing on https://www.facebook.com/spiegelonline/

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by otheotheothe on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:18AM (#13974709)
I did, i can only encourage you to try it. I dropped out of University even because of my self employment. I would never look back and change that. There's not much bureaucracy as a Kleinunternehmer (small business owner), depends on the niche you work in tho but for IT stuff and even importig/exporting electronics i never had big issues.

I am part owner of a US startup now, we have to deal with as much bureaucracy there...The big thing that makes the US different is that it's way easier to get capital, but there are as many weird laws which differ from county to county..

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by WA on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:27AM (#13974742)
> I have been thinking about going self-employed as a sidejob, boost my student-income a bit.

This costs you 10 minutes and 25 bucks (Gewerbeschein). Then you can file taxes for your side income once per year, which takes another 30 minutes, because at the side-income level the calculation is: income - expenses.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by mschuster91 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:41AM (#13974814)
With just a Gewerbeschein for a single person company you're personally liable for all debts/obligations! Been there, done that and nearly went to jail. Never again.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by germanier on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:10AM (#13974930)
Nobody will give a small limited liability company any serious credit line or similar. In practice you still are liable with your personal belongings to any relevant creditor if you are just starting.

Also, if you think that there is no personal liability for the managing founder in a limited liability company, don't search for "Geschäftsführerhaftung" or you are going to have a bad day.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by mschuster91 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:59AM (#13975320)
> Also, if you think that there is no personal liability for the managing founder in a limited liability company, don't search for "Geschäftsführerhaftung" or you are going to have a bad day.

This is not a German exclusive. Managers of a company are nowhere shielded from legal responsibility when they violate the criminal code. (Okay, big banks maybe not, but at least from the letter of the law...)

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by germanier on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @09:14AM (#13976257)
I'm not well versed in other countries' laws but you are right of course. My comment was intended to be seen in this direction: For small companies (let's say up to a few employees) almost all relevant risks of liability for the founder exist equally in both unlimited and limited liability companies. There are very few cases were the shield of a limited liability company is beneficial. An insurance is ofter a cheaper way of getting that. Also, a significant customer with a competent lawyer will ensure that all contracts with a small just-started business will include a personal liability clause.

That supermarket down the street? Almost surely run by a fully liable merchant. That consulting office next door? A fully liable partnership. This two-person software company? Both owner fully liable. It's a common choice and often better suited than it might sound at first.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by WA on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @06:51AM (#13975515)
My parent poster asked how to do things legally on the side while being a student. You don't get sued right away.

Furthermore, it's better to control risk by getting the proper insurance for your business and NOT relying on "limited" liability of a GmbH (although I heard you have to do pretty dumb shit to really be held liable personally in a GmbH).

So I'm really wondering what you did that you almost ended up in jail. This is certainly not the case for 99.9% of all people who just want to file taxes on their Adsense income once per year or code HTML for a bit of money.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by BjoernKW on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:55AM (#13974864)
Same applies to the managing director of a GmbH (Germany-style Ltd.), even more so because with a GmbH you can actually be held criminally liable if your company goes bankrupt.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by signal11 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @01:43PM (#13978760)
Wow. I remember reading somewhere that an early American innovation (1833 in Federal law) was - no more debtor's prisons, which allowed much more risk-taking in American business. I did not realize this persists today in Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors%27_prison

(Note that the US is often criticized for court fines which result in jail time if you're unable to pay, but that's a much later meaning. Originally it meant jail if you were unable to pay someone back.)

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by BjoernKW on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @02:40PM (#13979381)
There's no debtors' prison in the sense that you have to go to prison if you can't pay your debts. The criminal offence is delayed filing of bankruptcy: If your company can't pay its bills, it can't make payroll or its liabilities exceed its assets you have to file for bankruptcy within 3 weeks.

The problem with this is that often it isn't entirely clear if a company really is bankrupt by that definition. A company can be nominally bankrupt in one moment and solvent again in the next depending on how you look at it from a technical / accounting point of view.

This again unfortunately sometimes is preyed upon by both liquidators, investors and creditors, who might try to sue the managing director in order to recoup their losses from the director's personal funds. A conviction for delayed filing of bankruptcy both applies additional pressure and makes a director personally liable, GmbH or not.

So, in short: No there are no debtors' prisons anymore but the effect you described very much still applies thanks to outdated and misguided German bankruptcy laws.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by literallycancer on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @02:30PM (#13979290)
I thought GmbH was the LLC equivalent?
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by BjoernKW on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @02:41PM (#13979390)
Yes, an LLC is the US equivalent. An Ltd. (private limited company) is its UK counterpart.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by Mo3 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:55AM (#13974860)
This is a very stupid idea, especially in this field in this country.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by adwn on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:20AM (#13974969)
Care to elaborate?
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by Mo3 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @04:46AM (#13975068)
You are personally responsible and liable for anything that happens. I've nearly gone to jail over this and so has another member here.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by adwn on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @05:15AM (#13975170)
> You are personally responsible and liable for anything that happens.

So? You are personally responsible and liable for a nearly everything you do in life. Typically, you'll only "go to jail" if you do something seriously wrong, and then the limited liability of a GmbH won't save you (whether you're an owner or an employee).

The limited liability of a GmbH refers mostly to financial liabilities in case of bankruptcy, not to, e.g., criminal negligence.

Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by cntlzw on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:22AM (#13974724)
Go for it! I imagine your sidejob will be some sort of consulting? With your Gewerbeschein it takes little bureaucracy and you don't have much to lose. Just be prepared for taxes and the risk of Scheinselbstständigkeit. Don't make the mistage anyone does and ignore them.
Re:Germany Tries to Catch Up with Startup World by tscs37 on Tuesday March 28, 2017 @03:25AM (#13974736)
I haven't pinned anything concrete down but I'm leaning towards SaaS, something with low maintenance (hopefully).