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Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by darawk on Friday March 17, 2017 @03:16PM (#13897059)
> You're projecting. At least let him explain his reasoning. Creating your own fictional version which you can denounce prior that that explanation doesn't really help the conversation.

a) That isn't what projecting means.

b) He asked him about his reasoning and then criticized an explicitly hypothetical scenario. Note the 'if'.

Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by kbenson on Friday March 17, 2017 @03:24PM (#13897144)
> That isn't what projecting means.

"transfer or attribute one's own emotion or desire to (another person), especially unconsciously."

That seems to apply here, to my eyes.

Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by darawk on Friday March 17, 2017 @03:32PM (#13897214)
Hypothesizing about someone's state of mind is not projecting. Projecting is when you believe other people think/feel in the same way that you do. Since he was criticizing this belief, it is clear that it is not his own. Therefore, not projecting.
Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by tptacek on Friday March 17, 2017 @03:43PM (#13897314)
Since I didn't in fact say that voting for Trump made one a monster, the expectation that I rebut that argument is indeed a form of projection.
Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by darawk on Friday March 17, 2017 @04:53PM (#13897918)
It's really not. Feel free to justify your position, though. As I already more than adequately pointed out, making a hypothesis about someone else's state of mind is a necessary but not sufficient condition for 'projection'. Projection is specifically taking your own mind-state and extrapolating it to someone else's. This is very, very clearly not what happened here
Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by kbenson on Friday March 17, 2017 @06:05PM (#13898387)
> Projection is specifically taking your own mind-state and extrapolating it to someone else's.

I don't think it's clearly that, since there are sources that contradict the narrowness of that view.

"to regard (something within the mind, as a feeling, thought, or attitude) as having some form of reality outside the mind"[1]

Specifically, that method in which I was using it is when someone is applying their preconceptions to someone or something else. Which is fine, everyone does that in the normal course of dealing with other people. I was simply trying to point out that there was no solid evidence that tptacek was going by that reasoning, and putting it out there in that manner was non-constructive. All it did was open the door to a political flamewar about what percentage of people voted for Trump, whether everyone that voted for trump is also a monster, etc.

1: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/projecting

Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by darawk on Friday March 17, 2017 @06:17PM (#13898464)
> "to regard (something within the mind, as a feeling, thought, or attitude) as having some form of reality outside the mind"[1]

That doesn't comport with your prior statements. You could describe literally any ideological statement as 'projecting' by that standard, which renders your prior comment utterly meaningless. Which of course, in turn, implies that that was not your intended meaning.

> I was simply trying to point out that there was no solid evidence that tptacek was going by that reasoning, and putting it out there in that manner was non-constructive. All it did was open the door to a political flamewar about what percentage of people voted for Trump, whether everyone that voted for trump is also a monster, etc.

No solid evidence, no. But not an unreasonable hypothesis, and one that he gave the OP an opportunity to rebut. Nothing wrong with that. He wasn't asserting that that is what tptacek believes, he was saying "IF this is what he believes, then that is ridiculous".

Re:Palantir enables immigration agents to look up informatio... by kbenson on Friday March 17, 2017 @06:37PM (#13898590)
> You could describe literally any ideological statement as 'projecting' by that standard

Yes. It's a natural part of communication, where we model others and use those models to interpret meaning. In this case, I could have said "You're assuming too much" and it would likely have conveyed my meaning more clearly and prevented an ultimately pointless digression into what "projecting" means. That's a failure on my part.

> No solid evidence, no. But not an unreasonable hypothesis, and one that he gave the OP an opportunity to rebut. Nothing wrong with that.

I beg to differ. It pulled in an entire topic that didn't necessarily have any place in the discussion. I could make any number of assertions here that might imply my belief about your state of mind, and doing so and allowing them to be rebutted does not justify their use. For example, "do you think I'm wrong because he's black, because that's ridiculous?" With that statement, I've implied there may be some racism on your part, which is uncalled for without far more evidence, regardless of whether that's the only interpretation I can think of or not, given the little information present (a hypothetical, to be clear). In this case, the possible implication (possible only, because the interpretation allows for some ambiguity) was that tptacek might be capable of branding someone a monster purely because they support President Trump, or supported candidate Trump. If someone feels the need to discount this specific scenario, there are far clearer ways to do so while avoiding that implication. For example, pointing out the natural shortcomings in communication while interpreting someone else's statements. E.g. "Is that because of support for President Trump? I can't think of any other reason you'd call him a monster, but that seems extreme, so likely I'm just failing to see the point you're making. Care to explain?"