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Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by dood on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:36AM (#138747)
I think experimentation is hard-wired into the brain (its partly how we're able to learn so much so quickly as children), but rigor isn't. So is Mythbusters' approach to experimentation without rigor a net win? I spend probably a third of each episode wondering about that. Its very frustrating, but then something blows up, so generally it works out ok.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ivankirigin on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:41AM (#138751)
Mythbusters is close to correct, which is good enough.

They actively involve their community, which goes the rest of the way. If there is a serious lack of rigor, their audience will point it out, and an experiment will be rerun.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by dood on Monday March 17, 2008 @03:15AM (#138758)
I sometimes think the lack of rigor is serious: most Mythbusters' viewers could probably create similarly rigorous experiments if they had the inclination, what is lacking isn't so much holding beliefs to experiment, but interpreting the validity and applicability of experiments.

Some of Mythbusters' experiments are reasonable enough, but a lot of others are a little too sloppy for my taste, teaching a lazy habit of confirming beliefs by constructing plausible narratives.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by brlewis on Monday March 17, 2008 @10:32AM (#138917)
Key words "if they had the inclination." Imprinting minds with the idea that ideas should be tested by experiment is of tremendous value. Rigor can follow once the inclination is there.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by mechanical_fish on Monday March 17, 2008 @01:22PM (#139035)
Agreed, absolutely. You have to motivate rigor. I actually think the show does a fine job of that.

Sometimes they'll do a half-assed experiment, bust some myth, and then get viewer mail criticizing their technique. Then they'll revisit the myth, with better controls! This is pretty much exactly how real science works. Nobody does rigorous science because they want to spend enormous amounts of time and money doing the same boring experiment over and over, gradually imposing tighter and tighter controls on everything. They do it because otherwise their half-assed papers will get rejected by their extremely critical peers.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ashu on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:34PM (#139093)
For good science to happen, you should convince yourself about the validity of your theory / experiment as well. You are your own critic.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by mechanical_fish on Monday March 17, 2008 @03:02PM (#139120)
Sure, but convincing yourself of the validity of your own theories is always easier than it should be. That's human nature.

Among other things, rigor costs money and time. People's self-criticism tends to taper off as the deadline looms. This is a particularly important factor in Mythbusters -- my impression is that the Mythbusters folks are exactly as self-critical as their budget allows them to be.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by microcentury on Monday March 17, 2008 @06:38AM (#138849)
I wouldn't be too convinced it's that close to correct... Usually the set up a handful of experiments, get as close to the original situation as they can (which is often not that close - sometimes they're basing their experiments on movie events and guessing metrics), and give it a go a few times. But that said, the show is about entertainment rather than hard-core scientific vigour, so I'll continue to watch and enjoy :-)
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by stcredzero on Monday March 17, 2008 @09:05AM (#138885)
Sometimes their basic science has been lacking. (Compressed air jet-boat was supposed to work by "pushing against the water"?) Though they have been improving, I've noticed.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by andr on Monday March 17, 2008 @01:30AM (#138714)
1) Write a script to automatically submit every XKCD and TechCrunch post on News.YC.

2) ???

3) Karma profit!

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by technoguyrob on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:25AM (#138737)
Can we hardcode no-karma for any posts with "xkcd" in the title? I honestly think that's really fair. People might want an XKCD once in a while on the front page if it's really good, and comment on it, but I don't think the submitter should get credit since we all read XKCD anyways.

P.S. Notice I'm not proposing we set no-karma for xkcd.com related entries. Sometimes a thoughtful and non-comical (literally) entry from the xkcd blag is posted.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by tac-tics on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:30AM (#138741)
The good XKCDs deserve karma. Many of them are rather dull comics, but today's is pretty golden.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by graywh on Monday March 17, 2008 @10:11AM (#138909)
But everyone will have a different opinion on which ones ARE good. Even this one.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by brlewis on Monday March 17, 2008 @10:35AM (#138921)
I've got an idea! We can vote, and only the ones that lots of people agree are good go on the front page.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ivankirigin on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:40AM (#138749)
xkcd can actually be quite good. Most of his comics don't reach the top.

Today's comic is actually similar to recent posts on being creative and another Feynman quote on good problems. I wouldn't be surprised if the latter inspired today's comic. This means xkcd is part of the serious hacker conversation on the internet.

xkcd != LOLcats

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by Zev on Monday March 17, 2008 @06:33AM (#138848)
I think you took the original comment the wrong way; no one said xkcd was bad. Just that every comic gets posted to every social news site every time.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ivankirigin on Tuesday March 18, 2008 @12:33PM (#139927)
but they don't. Lots of his comics don't last on this site
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by Tichy on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:31AM (#138795)
Um, was that a real Feynman quote? I highly doubt it, there was no Mythbusters during his lifetime, or was there?

I hate people who think it is OK to put their own stupid quotes into the mouths of famous people to give them more leverage...

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ed on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:41AM (#138804)
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by brent on Monday March 17, 2008 @08:06AM (#138863)
He said it was similar to the posts about the Feynman quote. So the coast is clear, I don't think you hate anyone in this case.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by Tichy on Monday March 17, 2008 @10:46AM (#138927)
If anyone, xkcd would be the offender here, because he put the rather generic quote into Feynman's speech bubble.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by Tichy on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:33AM (#138799)
Why stop at xkcd, try digg and reddit... All those news sites should be synchronized. Presumably they eventually will be.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ROFISH on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:35AM (#138800)
But now you're saying that the best links are available on all the sites...

brb, got some coding to do. ;)

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by yters on Monday March 17, 2008 @05:13AM (#138824)
Yes, and they are available on a reoccurring basis. People like this. Soon the internet will be predictably new.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by tim2 on Monday March 17, 2008 @01:49AM (#138722)
Blame the system.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by ROFISH on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:30AM (#138794)
Can you really blame the system? This site is about submitting awesome links. The second you start limiting sources in anyway, is the second you start limiting awesome.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by juanpablo on Monday March 17, 2008 @01:26PM (#139038)
I visit this site not only for the links but mainly for the comments of intelligent people about those links.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by 1gor on Monday March 17, 2008 @11:03AM (#138938)
>This site is about submitting awesome links

I thought reddit is about that, not HN

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by yters on Monday March 17, 2008 @05:10AM (#138821)
Me posting is about me posting awesomeness. The moment you don't vote me up is the moment Chuck Norris votes his foot through your face. Make sure you vote me up.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by curi on Tuesday March 18, 2008 @06:15PM (#140277)
dear downmodders,

please spare yters. take me instead.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by phaedrus on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:05AM (#138728)
+1 for bashing string theory in the last frame of the strip! Haha!
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by bkrausz on Monday March 17, 2008 @06:24AM (#138844)
From http://xkcd.com/about/

How do I write "xkcd"? There's nothing in Strunk and White about this.

For those of us pedantic enough to want a rule, here it is: The preferred form is "xkcd", all lower-case. In formal contexts where a lowercase word shouldn't start a sentence, "XKCD" is an okay alternative. "Xkcd" is frowned upon.

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by pchristensen on Monday March 17, 2008 @04:42PM (#139205)
C'mon guys, I complained about the xkcd "manual RSS feed" we have here, but this one was good and relevant. Let the pain and backlash die down, then let's submit the appropriate ones. Lots of them get 2-3 upvotes, this one got 24. The system IS working.
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by jamesbritt on Monday March 17, 2008 @02:31AM (#138743)
What, no bongos?
Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by rglovejoy on Monday March 17, 2008 @03:58PM (#139163)
The bongos were only a small part of what made him Feynman.

When The Feynman Lectures were published, a picture of him playing the bongos appeared in the preface. Feynman was a bit mystified as to why they used that picture, but he let it slide.

A few years later, a Swedish publisher wanted to use the bongo photo in an encyclopedia article about him. Feynman was pretty upset by this, saying:

"The fact that I beat a drum has nothing to do with the fact that I do theoretical physics. Theoretical physics is a human endeavor, one of the higher developments of human beings - and this perpetual desire to prove that people are human by showing that they do other things that a few other humans do (like playing bongo drums) is insulting to me.

I am human enough to tell you to go to hell." (letter to Tord Pramberg, 4 January 1967)

Re:Xkcd: Mythbusters and Zombie Feynman by jamesbritt on Monday March 17, 2008 @10:36PM (#139483)
OK,but one of his books, perhaps Surely You're Joking, had an offer to buy a cassette that had a mix of him telling his stories, and him playing bongos.

Both pretty cool.