News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by codingdave on Sunday March 05, 2017 @11:37AM (#13796757)
Your edit is right... your view on this is clearly heavy with your personal situation. But the bigger perspective is that for a relationship to work, both sides need to contribute. Whether the old-fashioned way where the man works while the wife take care of kids, or both work, or the wife works while the man take care of kids, or something completely different... the point is that both sides need to contribute. Take gender out of it, and then look again -- it is just two people, together. They both should add value to the relationship.

So lets look at a single person without a job in that context: On day one when two people meet, when both are single, if one of them doesn't have a job, it is a red flag that the person without a job might not be willing or able to contribute in the future. The relationship starts without a shared home, so just one person spending all the money. It isn't balanced.

So when you get down to it, it isn't a gender thing. It is a money thing.

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by pm90 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @01:22PM (#13797495)
Well, a few generations ago, Men were OK with being in that kind of relationships. In fact, it was a culturally enforced value that the "Man should pay for everything" and it seemed to work fine.

I agree with your premise that unequal incomes (especially if they are glaring) can be a significant barrier to relationships. But what if e.g. the woman makes enough for the both of them, and all she is looking for in a partner is emotional well being, someone to talk/share activities etc.

So its not just a money thing IMO. It seems like the US culture has still not adopted to the economic realities of today. And it hurts everyone: a woman may know that she doesn't care about income differences and wants a partner for other reasons, but she will be dissuaded from pursuing such relationships by her friends/family etc.

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by throwaway729 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @04:34PM (#13798820)
> and it seemed to work fine

It worked well unless you were a woman with ambitions outside of the kitchen and bedroom. In that case, it was living hell and maybe you'd get luck with a world war.

Slavery worked fine too, unless you were a slave.

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by FT_intern on Monday March 06, 2017 @02:07AM (#13801157)
> In that case, it was living hell

Not it wasn't living hell. Having professional goals was a luxury.

Living hell was participating in wars, working 12 hours a day in a coal mine, etc.

Experiences that mainly men had the pleasure to enjoy

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by throwaway729 on Monday March 06, 2017 @09:08AM (#13802668)
> Not it wasn't living hell

The nice thing about this is that it's largely a statement of fact, not an ideological question. It's an issue we can actually evaluate using evidence.

So. Where's your evidence for this claim?

I have plenty of evidence for mine. We can go read memoirs, first-hand, and second-hand accounts from women in the 19th and early 20th century. The downsides are well-documented.

> Having professional goals was a luxury

Those well-documented downsides extend far beyond the absence of professional goals.

Financial dependence is coercive, especially when paired with lax legal protections. Lack of personal economic autonomy, enforced by culture and in many cases law, gives rise to a whole range of depressing conditions. Lack of professional ambition was only one contributor to a huge constellation of factors that made many women's lives a living hell.

> Living hell was participating in wars, working 12 hours a day in a coal mine, etc.

Of course, men also enjoyed professional positions in academics, in industry, and in government that women were cut off from.

> Experiences that mainly men had the pleasure to enjoy

What is the relevance of this observation to the current discussion?

Does doing a crappy job entitle a man to the affection or devotion of a woman? If not, then what bearing does the existence of crappy jobs have on the status of women in society?

Also, there's plenty of pain and misery to go around. No reason to turn it into a contest. And we certainly have no good reason to condition women's status in society on the total abolition of men working undesirable jobs.

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by pm90 on Sunday March 05, 2017 @10:59PM (#13800603)
Please don't quote me out of context. "Everything" was not everything in society (out of context), but everything pertaining to the problem of beginning a relationship.
Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by throwaway729 on Monday March 06, 2017 @08:30AM (#13802478)
> pertaining to the problem of beginning a relationship

Reading your post, it's not obvious that this is what you meant.

And in any case, you are still ignoring the woman's perspective. It was entirely too common for women to enter into relationships that they had no real interest in out of social and financial necessity.

Re:Men not at work: Why so many men aged 25 to 54 are not wo... by foxfaction on Tuesday March 07, 2017 @11:47PM (#13817973)
Many men are forced in to that exact process in 2017! Except they're simultaneously being told by the women that they're not good enough because they can't get jobs that don't exist. Something women back then didn't have to worry about, despite all their other problems.