Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by dougmwne on Thursday March 02, 2017 @02:44PM
(#13777513)
I am fascinated as the temporal gap between fireball Earth and living Earth keeps narrowing. The more this gap closes, the more it suggests that any planet with the right conditions will develop life. Exciting prospect for early Martian life!
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by cmrdporcupine on Thursday March 02, 2017 @07:11PM
(#13779624)
And yet from the first prokaryotes until the first eukaryotes, a huge huge huge time gap.
As far as we know that evolution from prokaryote to eukaryote type organisms has only happened on our planet once (that we know of.) Whereas we know of two different types of single cellular organisms (bacteria and archaea)
We might find simple single-cell type life is quite ubiquitous in the cosmos. But what we think of most as life -- sexual reproduction, multicellular organisms, etc.... might be very infrequent.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by FullMtlAlcoholc on Thursday March 02, 2017 @04:22PM
(#13778347)
Yes. It seems that whenever we consider conditions too extreme to support life, we find that it flourishes. From the hydrothermal vents of the Mariana Trench, where temps can reach 340 C and pressures of 1100 atmospheres to tardigrades surviving in the near vacuum of space, nature finds a way.
If anyone could answer, I've always wondered how a hypothetical bacteria on an asteroid could survive impact with earth or any celestial body.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by derefr on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:25PM
(#13778847)
Such evidence does tend to support panspermia hypotheses, but I don't think it helps much to support arguments about the tolerances of conditions required for the origin of life.
Life itself is effectively "a chemical soup that maintains homeostasis to keep its reactions going." Once you have something that can do that, you'd somewhat expect to find versions of it in all sorts of insane places—a bit like how you'd expect to find humans in all sorts of insane places, given that we can invent things like spacesuits.
But getting from basic replicators to (homeostatic) life is the hard part, because those replicators don't have the "defences" life has against the environment. If it gets too hot or cold, they die; if it gets too dry or saline or acidic or nitrogenous or anoxic, they die; they probably even die if they get too much visible-range sunlight.
A large mass of replicators—presuming they have RNA and mutational asexual evolution already—could eventually be winnowed into a group that has adapted into a homeostasis "feature." But you would need to start with "a large mass" of them—and it's questionable where you'd get that, given that it's unlikely for any single one to survive. (Maybe they developed biofilm-production early on. Maybe they had viroids. Maybe they were just really, really prolific. But "they just managed" is pretty unlikely.)
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by sndean on Thursday March 02, 2017 @04:47PM
(#13778548)
> If anyone could answer, I've always wondered how a hypothetical bacteria on an asteroid could survive impact with earth or any celestial body.
Thinking about it, my initial thought "part of the asteroid didn't get that hot" can't be right...
More likely [0], some components of the organism can remain intact after impact. Seeing papers like this one [1], where different components of a system can/do combine, or seeing one of the current theories for how mitochondria came to exist [2], makes me think extremely low probability combinations happen to workout sometimes. That, plus trillions of chances to happen.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by cgriswald on Thursday March 02, 2017 @05:25PM
(#13778853)
> Thinking about it, my initial thought "part of the asteroid didn't get that hot" can't be right...
I'm not sure about objects large enough to explode on impact, but smaller objects heat up and ablate, thus removing the heat, leaving the remaining object maybe not that hot. Probably tons of variables, including what the meteor is made of, the shape of it, angle of impact, etc...
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by ChuckMcM on Thursday March 02, 2017 @06:22PM
(#13779302)
It is a really interesting question. Up until relatively recently it was fairly difficult to culture 'dirt' bacteria. (something about them not growing in petri dishes) but now that we can, there is a really interesting experiment to run which is to take a quarter cup of soil as control, and a quarter cup in a container that you send up and attach to the outside of the ISS for a few weeks, then bring it back and culture them both to see what survived.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by thaumasiotes on Thursday March 02, 2017 @07:11PM
(#13779626)
> It seems that whenever we consider conditions too extreme to support life, we find that it flourishes. From the hydrothermal vents of the Mariana Trench, where temps can reach 340 C and pressures of 1100 atmospheres to tardigrades surviving in the near vacuum of space
Tardigrades can survive in space, but they can't flourish there.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by mrtri on Friday March 03, 2017 @07:28AM
(#13782401)
I dont believe in Jesus or Mohammad, but I believe evolution is mathematically impossible that some amino acids can evolve into complex DNA in 4 billion years.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by vivekd on Thursday March 02, 2017 @11:16PM
(#13780707)
So if life started on this planet shortly after it was formed, it must mean that life did not begin through the random combination of molecules. That something else happened to create life, whether it was transported from outer space or divine intervention.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by packetized on Friday March 03, 2017 @01:26AM
(#13781124)
By 'shortly', you mean ~650 million years? I'm not sure I'd consider that 'shortly', especially given that it's only been that long since the Cambrian explosion.
Re:Scientists Say Canadian Bacteria Fossils May Be Earth’s O...
by vivekd on Friday March 03, 2017 @02:22AM
(#13781280)
from the article :
>just 340 million years after the formation of the plant
Also when you consider that the earth was uninhabitable for most of those first few hundred million years. This was a time when our planet was still getting bombarded by asteroids and oceans would have boiled away into steam. Temperatures were hot and the surface was volcanic. It was barely habitable at this point.
That would would qualify as shortly by most estimates. Life began as soon as it was possible.
As far as we know that evolution from prokaryote to eukaryote type organisms has only happened on our planet once (that we know of.) Whereas we know of two different types of single cellular organisms (bacteria and archaea)
We might find simple single-cell type life is quite ubiquitous in the cosmos. But what we think of most as life -- sexual reproduction, multicellular organisms, etc.... might be very infrequent.
If anyone could answer, I've always wondered how a hypothetical bacteria on an asteroid could survive impact with earth or any celestial body.
Life itself is effectively "a chemical soup that maintains homeostasis to keep its reactions going." Once you have something that can do that, you'd somewhat expect to find versions of it in all sorts of insane places—a bit like how you'd expect to find humans in all sorts of insane places, given that we can invent things like spacesuits.
But getting from basic replicators to (homeostatic) life is the hard part, because those replicators don't have the "defences" life has against the environment. If it gets too hot or cold, they die; if it gets too dry or saline or acidic or nitrogenous or anoxic, they die; they probably even die if they get too much visible-range sunlight.
A large mass of replicators—presuming they have RNA and mutational asexual evolution already—could eventually be winnowed into a group that has adapted into a homeostasis "feature." But you would need to start with "a large mass" of them—and it's questionable where you'd get that, given that it's unlikely for any single one to survive. (Maybe they developed biofilm-production early on. Maybe they had viroids. Maybe they were just really, really prolific. But "they just managed" is pretty unlikely.)
Thinking about it, my initial thought "part of the asteroid didn't get that hot" can't be right...
More likely [0], some components of the organism can remain intact after impact. Seeing papers like this one [1], where different components of a system can/do combine, or seeing one of the current theories for how mitochondria came to exist [2], makes me think extremely low probability combinations happen to workout sometimes. That, plus trillions of chances to happen.
[0] PhD, but not in astrobiology...
[1] http://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/pdfExtended/S1931-3128...
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_hypothesis
I'm not sure about objects large enough to explode on impact, but smaller objects heat up and ablate, thus removing the heat, leaving the remaining object maybe not that hot. Probably tons of variables, including what the meteor is made of, the shape of it, angle of impact, etc...
Tardigrades can survive in space, but they can't flourish there.
Pfft.. Have you seen our cellular networks?
https://youtu.be/cQoQgTqj3pU
and besides carbon14 dating can go back max, 50.000 years how did they come with 3.5 billion year old bacteria?
>just 340 million years after the formation of the plant
Also when you consider that the earth was uninhabitable for most of those first few hundred million years. This was a time when our planet was still getting bombarded by asteroids and oceans would have boiled away into steam. Temperatures were hot and the surface was volcanic. It was barely habitable at this point.
That would would qualify as shortly by most estimates. Life began as soon as it was possible.