> I disagree that the Chinese started from scratch. From where I am sitting they started at the exact same place SpaceX did, using the research and know-how from a well funded and storied space organization to bootstrap their goals.

We can count it different ways. Besides having millenias long history of rocketry, China modern space program started with von Karman student:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qian_Xuesen