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Re:The Future of Not Working by thehardsphere on Sunday February 26, 2017 @06:38AM (#13736778)
> How do you define simplistic terms? If you were hungry and someone gave you enough money to eat, that would be a solution regardless of how corrupt your government.

Let's work through an example.

North Korea is one of the poorest countries in the world, and many people starve there every year. It's also a ruthlessly oppressive totalitarian state; the government decides who can enter and leave the country. The government also runs the entire economy, and directs most of it toward military spending. This is all because the country is essentially under the total control of a single person whose father and grand father decided they like things this way, and the geopolitical situation happened to work out in their favor from 1950 to the present.

Suppose you've got an infinite pile of money to give to North Koreans to solve their problems with not having enough food to eat. It's illegal for you to enter that country without permission and illegal for the North Koreans to accept money from foreigners. So how do you give them the money?

Let's assume you can give them the money; that you have a big cargo plane you can fly over North Korea and can throw money out the back of and be certain that a deserving poor starving person will receive it. Where is the deserving poor starving person going to go to buy food? There's no private farm to shop at. The government run stores aren't going to take this foreign money. They're stuck with whatever the government dictates will be produced, which is obviously not enough food.

Ignore that problem and assume the shopkeeper or the farmer would take the money. What are they going to do with it? Private property is basically illegal in North Korea, so it's not like the farmer is going to save his money to make a better farm that can feed more people. He can only spend money in state run enterprises, which all feed directly into the government, and the government spends it all on Kalishnakov rifles, nuclear weapons programs, and weird foreign assassinations. These things are not great for solving the problems of starvation and poverty.

North Korea is the most extreme example, but lots of poor countries have problems like this that cannot be solved by simply throwing money out the back of a cargo plane. Poor societies often need to change to become not-poor.

Re:The Future of Not Working by marmot777 on Monday February 27, 2017 @03:40AM (#13742819)
Fair enough, the universal basic income would not work in a number of countries that are either failed states on one side or authoratarian on the other, but much of civilization, including the developed world, falls in the zone where this program might work and is at least worth testing. I accept your premise that this can't work unless some minimum conditions are met.

Given that, do you toss the whole idea or do you think it could work in places like Kenya and the United States?

Re:The Future of Not Working by thehardsphere on Monday February 27, 2017 @01:10PM (#13746351)
I think it could work in places like the United States, if it is implemented correctly. I'm skpetical that a correct implementation will be possible because the incentives that created the haphazard system of poorly designed transfer payments we have today aren't just going to go away.

It's too easy for someone to say "Group X needs additional support for Reason Y" and end up with something just as expensive and complex as what we have now. I know, because I've managed to bait people on both the left and the right into doing it for different values of X and Y.

By "correct implementation", I mean one that replaces all welfare, social security, and probably some parts of the tax code. Healthcare maybe you can get away with treating separately.

I don’t know enough about Kenya to say one way or the other.

Re:The Future of Not Working by marmot777 on Monday February 27, 2017 @03:58PM (#13747977)
Yes, I agree, as part of what makes this program appealing is its simplicity and its relatively un-leaky bucket. That is if I have $2000 available for Bob, it's still pretty damn close to $2000 by the time it reaches his account.

As you suggest, it's difficult to imagine this shoehorned in with the tangle of programs administered by multiple agencies.

Re:The Future of Not Working by mateus1 on Sunday February 26, 2017 @12:54PM (#13738542)
Of course cash transfers won't topple dictatorial regimes, that's not what it is for.

You can't expect a microeconomics proposal to solve an international political crisis.

Re:The Future of Not Working by thehardsphere on Sunday February 26, 2017 @02:35PM (#13739272)
I think we're in violent agreement. I just picked an example where

> someone gave you enough money to eat, that would be a solution regardless of how corrupt your government.

is obviously not a solution. NK is the most extreme example, but there are others which are less extreme and don't rise to the level of "international political crisis."

Re:The Future of Not Working by marmot777 on Monday February 27, 2017 @04:19PM (#13748192)
Not to mention that if the resources simply aren't available, money doesn't perform magic. Money is symbolic, more powerful than your average symbol, but still, it's not edible.
Re:The Future of Not Working by kaybe on Sunday February 26, 2017 @06:55PM (#13740784)
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39088777

Looks like they only paid $90 for the assassination (and materials I guess)).