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Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:23PM (#13728492)
about metadata: in Postgrest - you tell it which schema to expose and that means that anything inside it needs "tracking" and exposing, want it exposed, put it in that schema. Relations between entities ... that can be queried from the database itself, no need to ask the user for it.

timing out - it works up to a point, if you for example set a hard limit to 1s then to an attacker it just means he needs to do a few parallel requests and he still kills your db.

what postgrest does for protection: a - no fancy joins, joins are only done by a thing we call "embedding" and those are joins between tables that FKs defined between them so they are fast, if you need fancy joins then the user has to define the view doing the join and expose it to the api.

b - no functions applied to the return columns, like you cant generate something like "select md5(bigtextcolumn) ..."

c - the only way to "kill" the database under postgrest is to use a filter on a column that has no index ( name like "hello"), out of the box postgrest does not have protection build in for that, but it's easy to put a proxy in front and whenever there is a url parameter called "name" you just reply with "you are not allowed to filter by this column"

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by 0x777 on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:58PM (#13729970)
I'm one of the engineers who work on the data service

> about metadata: in Postgrest ..

We don't want to restrict the data service to a particular schema. You can add a table from any schema to be tracked, say information_schema or pg_catalog. In fact, that is how introspection works (you can look at the queries made by the console). This means that the schema cache in memory would be quite large because of the number of tables in information_schema/pg_catalog if we were to auto load all these. There is also the issue that you may not want to expose some tables. We can definitely have a console button which will let you import all the tables in public schema.

Sure, you can infer relationships from the foreign key constraints. But, how would you come up with names that do not conflict with the existing columns? What if you add a new column with the same name as an inferred relationship? With the data service, you can also define relationships on/to views across schemas (1). Making metadata explicit goes with one of our core principles, 'no magic'.

> what postgrest does for protection: a - no fancy joins,

explicit joins are not allowed even with our data service. The joins that happen are the implicit ones because of the relationships. We do the same thing if we need any custom joins/aggregations. Define a view and expose it.

> b - you can't do anything other than selecting columns and relationships with the api.

> c - the permission layer can be used to prevent these to some extent (like not allowing an anonymous user to filter on a particular column).

1. https://hasura.io/_docs/platform/0.6/getting-started/5-data-...

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:16PM (#13730017)
all the things i explained about metadata are implemented in postgrest and they work, and there is no loss of flexibility sinceyou can expose any table you want from any schema by explicitly creating a "mirror" view in the exposed schema. and relations are detected across tables and views and there is a way to deal with collisions. I am not saying that your way is bad (having a metadata file), just saying there is a way to automatically create it.

- b,c that's good that you don't expose the entire SQL

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by 0x777 on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:32PM (#13730067)
I guess we'll need to have 'auto generate relationships' tooling. Just curious, how do you infer the relationships between a table and a view?
Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:41PM (#13730096)
can't reply to your question so doing it here. the code is OS so you can look it up :) the idea is this - detect table relations based on FK - for each view check where each column comes from (view column usage) based on the info above you know all the relations in the system, even view to view

also there is a way to do it in a single query but that is not yet implemented in postgrest

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by 0x777 on Saturday February 25, 2017 @01:28AM (#13730375)
While we can get the information on the columns used in a view, we can't infer if the uniqueness properties propagate to the view which guarantee the semantics of relationships.

I guess it might be convenient to do this (determine relationships across views), but the users should be aware of the guarantees offered in this scenario.

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Saturday February 25, 2017 @01:49AM (#13730439)
I am not sure i understand what you are saying about guarantees. If there is a FK, there is a relation. It's the user that is driving the relations by specifying what columns are FK, it's the same thing as defining relations in a GUI, only you do it at the database level
Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:26PM (#13730048)
anyway, good luck with your product. As i mentioned, it's the only thing out there close to the concept of postgrest, and that's a good thing :)
Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by 0x777 on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:36PM (#13730082)
Thanks ! If I remember correctly, postgrest was started about the same time we started work on the data service. In fact, both these projects were pushing the limits of the then hasql library with the whole dynamic query generation.
Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:25PM (#13728506)
and also permission, between views/stored procedures/roles/grants/rls postgresql has all the features needed to implement any ACL needed.
Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by 0x777 on Friday February 24, 2017 @11:30PM (#13730062)
> and also permission, between

True. That would also mean creating a database user for every application user. The auth service needs to attach more metadata to the users and since postgres does not allow you to reference system catalogs, the two user systems have to be kept in sync. We were not quite certain how this idea of mapping users would pan out when we started building the auth service.

Re:Show HN: Hasura – A Postgres BaaS and Kubernetes PaaS on ... by ruslan_talpa on Saturday February 25, 2017 @02:41AM (#13730532)
You don't have to have a database user for each application user. Database roles are mapped to groups and application users are defined in tables as always and their ids can be used in RLS policies. It's hard to explain in a few words but the main point is that you don't need a database role to map to each application user