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Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by seibelj on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:44PM (#13727710)
I know several people who are highly involved with the FCC, telecom industry, and telecom law that think that "network neutrality" is just 2 words. Until 1970, and only because of lawsuits, it was illegal to connect anything to your phone line. You could get any phone you wanted from Ma Bell as long as it was black.[0] If you wanted a different color you had to pay extra. It took force to make Ma Bell and the FCC allow you to plug in your own phone, your own computer, etc. The FCC supports monopolies, if you want competition you should applaud the deregulation of telecom.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_500_telephone#Ownership_...

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by frgtpsswrdlame on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:48PM (#13727750)
How do you imagine the deregulation in this article will help competition? Specifically, that is.
Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by seibelj on Friday February 24, 2017 @06:15PM (#13728836)
By allowing upstart MVNO's to avoid arduous regulation processes. I am involved with 2 MVNO's that have been trying to merge for over a year, they don't have that many customers, and no one opposes it. Yet the FCC dragged their feet with no updates and no reason for the delay. This has real world, multi-million dollar consequences. The process is moving forward now since Ajit got hired.

Armchair technologists read an article about net neutrality on arstechnica and think it's black and white. News flash - telecom and ISP's have been shaping traffic since the beginning! You think NetFlix has high quality video on shitty connections because they are nice? Wrong! They pay for the privilege.[0]

I say, let the free market decide. The history of telecom is beyond insane. If you actually care about this stuff maybe you should learn more. This book is pretty esoteric but it gives the true history https://www.amazon.com/Great-Telecom-Meltdown-Fred-Goldstein...

[0]https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304834704579401...

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by frgtpsswrdlame on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:00PM (#13729099)
>By allowing upstart MVNO's to avoid arduous regulation processes.

This doesn't seem that arduous to me. The article estimates regulatory compliance will only take 6.8 hours.

>I say, let the free market decide.

Is that not the point of this regulation? It provides more information to consumers so they are better able to decide. Free markets only work when there is transparency about what is being bought and sold.

>I am involved with 2 MVNO's that have been trying to merge for over a year...

This has nothing to do with the regulatory rollback in the article.

>Armchair technologists...

We can discuss without getting bent out of shape.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by badsock on Friday February 24, 2017 @03:59PM (#13727842)
Telecoms are a classic example of a natural monopoly - which is to say it would be monopoly whether there's regulation or not.

How do you imagine there would be competition in, say, fibre? A bunch of companies all running their own last mile? That's incredibly inefficient.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by asciimo on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:09PM (#13727919)
The whole thing should be a public utility like water, electricity, and sewer.
Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by rayiner on Friday February 24, 2017 @04:40PM (#13728183)
Yes, just like sewers: http://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/atlanta-area-st....

Also, nobody advocating for "treating telecom like a utility" is actually advocating for that. Try looking up the cost of a county water/sewer hookup sometime. It's not free, and your $50/month water bill doesn't pay for it. I'm paying off a $30,000 bill to get "public utility" water and sewer access. That's pretty typical.

If we required every house builder to pay thousands of dollars up front to install fiber people would be frothing at the mouth.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by bumblebeard on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:22PM (#13728485)
$30,000 seems like a lot unless you live in a very rural area. Where I live in Michigan it's $1,410 for a hookup within 500 feet of a road. Why is it so expensive where you are?

Also, fiber would probably be pretty cheap once the infrastructure was already in place. A single phase overhead power line is often provided for free to new homes and underground service runs about $3.50/foot so I imagine fiber would be similarly cheap.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by rayiner on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:09PM (#13729395)
Where in Michigan? Here's the fee schedule in my county: http://www.aacounty.org/departments/inspections-and-permits/.... Fairfax County, where my parents live is similarly expensive: about $25,000 for a smallish house.
Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by bumblebeard on Friday February 24, 2017 @10:50PM (#13729941)
Midland county. Here's a similar document for an area near me; the city doesn't seem to have a fee schedule online anywhere.

http://www.lincoln-twp.org/forms%20policies/New%20Water%20Co...

$2,520 is what they charge for water; not sure what it is for wastewater - they may not have a public sewer system - but it's about $3,500 where I live. It used to be $150 (seriously, not a typo) and people got really upset when they raised it by a few thousand dollars all at once a few years ago.

I guess it's not a very densely-populated area and the state is surrounded by water so that might explain why it's so cheap.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by badsock on Friday February 24, 2017 @07:53PM (#13729342)
Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by rayiner on Friday February 24, 2017 @08:46PM (#13729497)
Sandy's system covers the 2,400 housing units within city limits, and it cost $7.5 million, so it cost over $3,000 per house to wire up (or $3,500 per subscribing household). Which is actually on the higher side considering that Sandy is a pretty dense little city (about double the density of a typical suburb).

Assuming the city can get a 4% bond, and depreciates the asset over 20 years, about $27 of that $40 goes just to depreciation and interest.

That cost is actually fairly typical. What isn't typical is an 83% uptake rate. Average for municipal providers is about 54%, and average for private FTTH providers like Verizon is 30-35%. If your uptake rate is 35% instead of 83%, your monthly cost in depreciation and interest alone jumps to $64. That's before the cost of bandwidth, maintenance, customer service, etc., which typically eats up about half the monthly bill.

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by st3v3r on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:22PM (#13728488)
Except once it's hooked up, it doesn't need to be hooked up again.

And given that most providers will make you pay to run a line to your house, you don't exactly have a leg to stand on

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by seibelj on Friday February 24, 2017 @06:22PM (#13728870)
I would argue that wired and wireless are very different beasts. If you want to regulate fiber, that's debatable, but a competitive wireless landscape is ripe for competition given all the possibilities for delivering service.
Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by JediWing on Friday February 24, 2017 @05:14PM (#13728436)
Huh?

The only reason you could connect "any lawful device" after 1968 was because of the FCC "Carterphone" rulemaking.

In its absence, Ma Bell would have kept forced leasing of standard phones as long as possible. Perhaps I'm misunderstand you (or missing sarcasm?).

Re:FCC weakens net neutrality rule in a prelude to larger ro... by seibelj on Friday February 24, 2017 @06:18PM (#13728859)
The FCC was regulating the monopoly! And why would anyone want a monopoly to exist? "Cheap phone service for grandma". That's always been the justification for all the insanity. It took years to deregulate and allow true competition, and it always came through because of lawsuits. Telecom is an industry run by lawyers.