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Re:Toddlers’ grammar skills not inherent, but learned, new S... by dragonwriter on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:11PM (#13726667)
> Grice had a fun theory that the observable signal of language is _so_ noisy that it's impossible to learn outright, regardless of the number of examples you're exposed to. And thus, everyone speaks a slightly different language, and some sets of these idiolects are, roughly, mutually compatible. I don't think he ever did any math to demonstrate this though.

I'm not sure how you'd reduce this to something mathematically demonstrably, but it seems to me that it's the only thing that could be true. The alternatives is that languages are real, distinct, concrete things that exist independent of people, rather than arbitrary lines drawn by people around the continuous and evolving variation in ways people communicate.

Re:Toddlers’ grammar skills not inherent, but learned, new S... by dmreedy on Friday February 24, 2017 @02:39PM (#13726974)
So, the only hunch I have is that there might be a kind of cryptographic/information approach to it. If you treat natural language as a noisy encoding of some underlying set of intents (whatever sentience is), then the question becomes "is there enough Information in the signal (natural language) to accurately model the underlying intents statistically?". If the answer is 'no', or 'yes, but very badly', then it seems likely to me that there's some shared hardware/firmware (in this framing, the functional equivalent of a decryption key) between people. If the answer is 'yes', or 'yes, mostly at least', then there's no need for any kind of universal grammar or such, and you can learn language from a blank state. Basically, is natural language something like a one-time pad, or is it more like a breakable form of encryption?

Of course, there are plenty of assumptions in that model (for one, can you even separate 'language' from 'sentience' like an information model would suggest. I'm not so sure you can, but then I've always been somewhat sympathetic to Sapir-Whorf). I'm also not a competent enough mathematician in these fields to see where all the holes in this line of thinking are.