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Re:Using Yubikeys Everywhere by tptacek on Monday February 20, 2017 @08:24PM (#13692496)
You should basically assume your TOTP secret on your phone is as secure, and no more secure, than any other piece of sensitive information on your phone. If you don't trust your phone, that's a good reason not to use your phone to generate TOTP secrets. For users like that, you can configure a Yubikey to function as a TOTP token (but it's a pain).

For me, I trust my phone more than any other piece of computing equipment I own. I also rarely unlock my password manager on it, so there's no one attack that gets you everything you need by hitting either my phone or my computer.

If I had a generic, non-Google Android phone, or any kind of rooted phone, the equation would be different for me.

Re:Using Yubikeys Everywhere by my_first_acct on Monday February 20, 2017 @10:02PM (#13692916)
> If I had a generic, non-Google Android phone

Yeah, that's me. So I have started experimenting with the Yubikey 4. (For those who don't already know: the Y4 keeps the private key somewhere in hardware, and never lets it out; the Y4 itself does the TOTP calculation onboard). The Windows desktop Yubico Authenticator (which talks to the Y4) is not too painful.

Re:Using Yubikeys Everywhere by Godel_unicode on Monday February 20, 2017 @11:56PM (#13693387)
I'm curious, why do you trust your phone to have a session token for your Google account, but not the TOTP secret? In my view they are essentially equivalent.

Both allow effectively unfettered access to your Google account (with the exception of some account security changes, for which both require your password), both can be revoked from the web interface (arguably a TOTP secret is worse as it can create new session tokens but revoking it doesn't revoke tokens it created). Both can be stolen from unencrypted flash, and stealing either requires root (or privilege escalation, which is effectively root).

This whole "TOTP is weak, use yubikey" argument seems 100% about convenience, with a smattering of pseudo-security backing it up.

Re:Using Yubikeys Everywhere by xorcist on Tuesday February 21, 2017 @04:03AM (#13694311)
> why do you trust your phone to have a session token for your Google account, but not the TOTP secret?

Why would you trust Google or anyone else with your work (bank, Github, whatever you use TOTP for) credentials? I can't understand how anyone would think it's "pseudo-security". As you rightly say, your credentials are in plain text on that phone.

Re:Using Yubikeys Everywhere by my_first_acct on Tuesday February 21, 2017 @01:02AM (#13693639)
> smattering of pseudo-security

That's a good description of the state of my knowledge.

To answer your question: the Google account that my phone has access to doesn't have anything important, so I'm not worried about any related keys leaking. The TOTP secret would be for something more important, that the phone itself doesn't have access to.

In other words, I'm wondering whether a generic Android phone is safe to use as an over-sized hardware security token (or rather, as backup for a more convenient hardware token). It seems the answer is no.