A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by koolba on Sunday February 12, 2017 @05:07PM (#13631254)

> I'll protect myself by refusing. They can detain me for as long as they want. I'll fight it in court, because I am a US citizen and god dammit they do not have the right to warrantlessly review my encrypted communications.

While I don't agree it's a good thing, I think they do have the right to detain you indefinitely and/or search whatever they damn well please if it's on your person. I don't think asking for a password that doesn't unlock a device in your possession would pass muster, but unlocking your phone would. Your rights (as a citizen) at the border aren't the same as when you're not there.

Also, I think the definition of "at the border" includes anywhere with 100 miles of the physical end of jurisdiction (so effectively you sitting at home in most of the west or east coasts is "at the border").

> If we've gone so far on the path towards authoritarianism that even citizens don't have rights, I'll just never come back in.

FYI, I think they have the same right to search you or hold you indefinitely on the way out as well.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by morgante on Sunday February 12, 2017 @05:21PM (#13631351)

> I don't think asking for a password that doesn't unlock a device in your possession would pass muster, but unlocking your phone would.

I don't think they can force me to give up my PIN. Not even a court can do that.

My rights as a citizen are indeed less, in that they can detain me in an attempt to force compliance. The thing is that it's never been fully tested. In all the cases I've reviewed, either the person relented or CBP eventually let them through.

If the detention lasted for days, their case would become harder and harder to make. Someone needs to make a stand.

> FYI, I think they have the same right to search you or hold you indefinitely on the way out as well.

Perhaps, but leaving is nowhere near as systematic. More importantly: if they were making giving up this info a condition of entry, I would refuse to enter. If they want to lock me up for that, I have a court case.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by mysticmarvel on Monday February 13, 2017 @05:54AM (#13634416)

Do you have a job or family? How long would the former keep you employed? How long would the latter last without your support? Could you afford legal fees without employment?

It's cool to say these things, but the system is weighted against protest. You must be ready to sacrifice everything for your principles.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by morgante on Monday February 13, 2017 @04:53PM (#13639129)

That's why I specifically said nobody is obligated to protest.

Personally, I'm quite well-positioned to be able to do this. I'm a young self-employed single white man with no family to support. My net worth is probably enough to pay the legal fees (though I hope that this is the sort of case the ACLU or EFF would support).

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by manarth on Sunday February 12, 2017 @07:15PM (#13632068)

  "I don't think they can force me to give up my PIN. Not even a court can do that."

Meanwhile, on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by koolba on Monday February 13, 2017 @06:49AM (#13634607)

That's for contempt of court. If a judge thinks (effectively in his sole discretion) that you're in contempt of court, they can sentence you to whatever they'd like for as long as they'd like. It's purposely vague and powerful because it's meant to be used to punish the most heinous of acts: those against the court.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until... by tjohns on Sunday February 12, 2017 @05:46PM (#13631526)

CBP can't deny entry to a US citizen.

They could temporarily inconvenience you, or confiscate your belongings (or arrest you if you actually break the law)... but they would not legally be able to detain you indefinitely. A lawyer would have a field day with that.

Since there's nothing actually illegal about refusing to unlock your phone, at worst you'd lose your phone while they attempt to crack it offline.

[ Parent | on HN ]