News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by yourapostasy on Sunday February 12, 2017 @04:16AM (#13627544)
Most if not all WFM stores hold tours for customers to teach how to affordably shop WFM. Ask about it.

The TL;DR is only buy fresh vegetables, single-item bulks, fruit, meats, and seafood in descending order of volume/mass. The less processing and packaging, the better as a rule of thumb. Round out very sparingly with exceptions.

This is how we should shop regardless of store. Mackey has publicly admitted he vastly regrets taking WFM to Wall Street. I get the impression if most customers shopped as described above, crushing profit margins, in the absence of shareholder pressure to change WFM's real mission and cost him strategic control, and the profits are self-sustained, he wouldn't mind.

I'd like to see more feedback from others on whether or not they noticed WFM's efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label. They did try, and to a smaller extent are still trying (meat stages are a prominent example), and are trying not to antagonize regulatory stakeholders by pointing out the mainstream organic label is deficient in many ways, but by and large it seems most of their customer base is more concerned about labels than actually delivering change.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by RyanZAG on Sunday February 12, 2017 @06:34AM (#13627902)
If you think of it as a 'guilt tax' it makes a lot more sense, and also the direction these stores need to go to improve profits. It's never really been about the food itself: it's been about selling a positive self image. It's a reaction to the abundance of media showing modern chicken coops and mass migrant vegetable labour.

Once you understand that, you understand why the label is the single most important thing, and the less real details supplied the better. Any details you supply serves to break the facade that the organic label means you're doing good deeds - because ultimately, you're still killing that chicken. It's why "efforts to broaden beyond just an organic label" are doomed before they begin and will hurt sales more than they help.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by CuriouslyC on Sunday February 12, 2017 @08:33AM (#13628241)
What's wrong with killing a chicken? Eating and being eaten is part of the natural order. Creating massive suffering is the aberration.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by RyanZAG on Sunday February 12, 2017 @09:00AM (#13628321)
That's not how many people see it today. A video of a chicken being killed and de-feathered by any means causes a very harsh reaction in a large percentage of the population.

The use of the organic label is to distance people from this imagery by constantly repeating the propaganda that everything is being done 'nicely'. However, actually showing any kind of killing, no matter how nice, destroys that propaganda. The key trick is to use the correct words to make sure people do not conflate what they are eating with anything negative, and the organic label is part of that.

When you go deeper and attempt to explain how the killing is better, you simply open the audience to the fact that there is still killing being done. This is the wrong approach for the target market. It's better to distance the brand from the actual realities as much as possible.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by CuriouslyC on Sunday February 12, 2017 @10:58AM (#13628899)
People are only shocked by death because we live in a creche society that attempts to insulate us from it. How many times do you think the average person has seen a dead human body? Beyond that, how many times has the average person witnessed the death of anything more substantial than an insect?

We fear our own deaths because we've forgotten our true nature, so we've attempted to banish the specter of death from society as a whole. I'm willing to bet people who have this reaction to the death of a chicken are being brought in contact with their own mortality, and that scares them. Given that we are all going to die, we should get comfortable with death rather than hide from it.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by delias_ on Sunday February 12, 2017 @11:23AM (#13629006)
Will be interesting to see how this argument may be affected by life extension technology and if natural death is ever cured.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by yks on Sunday February 12, 2017 @11:27AM (#13629023)
People prefer to be infatuated with immortality/longevity and I imagine working cryogenics would be an absolute market success with those insulated people.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by LeifCarrotson on Sunday February 12, 2017 @09:22AM (#13628408)
When it's being de-feathered, the chicken is dead. Why should this either affect people's reactions? Or, given that people are irrational and will react to the 'suffering' of a chicken's dead body, why should it be shown to the public as a component of the process? It's not 'unkind' to the chicken.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by colanderman on Sunday February 12, 2017 @09:30AM (#13628447)
Check out how chickens are treated while they're alive and get back to me about cruelty.

Hint: they don't run around in happy green fields.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by Ralfp on Sunday February 12, 2017 @11:32AM (#13629051)
> Hint: they don't run around in happy green fields.

Some of them do. I actually check the code on eggs before buying to make sure I'm getting those from free-roaming chickens.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by colanderman on Sunday February 12, 2017 @02:43PM (#13630190)
No, they do not, even if they're so-called "free range". I don't know about the EU, but in the US that term is marketing bullshit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range#Free-range_poultr...
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by Ralfp on Sunday February 12, 2017 @02:54PM (#13630289)
EU regulates what conditions "free range" has to meet to be called like that. I am sorry that it's different in US.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by mcguire on Sunday February 12, 2017 @12:28PM (#13629355)
The code on eggs?
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by majewsky on Sunday February 12, 2017 @01:29PM (#13629707)
Every egg needs to be marked in the EU, to indicate the method of production (organic vs. free-range vs. cage) and country of origin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_marking
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by mcguire on Sunday February 12, 2017 @01:59PM (#13629882)
Thanks!
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by srj on Sunday February 12, 2017 @01:29PM (#13629710)
Some do run around in happy green fields. That's what the step rating on the meat packaging at Whole Foods can tell you.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by colanderman on Sunday February 12, 2017 @02:42PM (#13630182)
No, even so-called "free range" chickens do not. It's a bullshit marketing term in the US: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_range#Free-range_poultr...

Not to mention that farmed chickens are bred to be so fat they can barely walk anyway: https://www.wired.com/2008/02/chickens-cant-w/

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by tracker1 on Sunday February 12, 2017 @04:44PM (#13631087)
My mom, for the most part, won't eat anything my dad/brother hunts... she prefers the stuff already packaged at the store, that she doesn't have to think too much about. She'll eat freshly caught fish, but not with the head on, and won't watch it being prepped.

Me, I figure there's all sorts of tasty critters in the world and I'm willing to try every one.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by ndespres on Sunday February 12, 2017 @09:41AM (#13628517)
I disagree that the animal welfare labels are doing some kind of lip service to animals, or paying a guilt tax. There is a big difference between a chicken from a factory slaughterhouse, and a grass-fed truly free-ranging (outside) one. When people come for a tour of my farm they get a better idea of what it's about and why it costs more. Over time more people will be informed about the origin of their food and why labels aren't just labels.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by RyanZAG on Monday February 13, 2017 @02:41AM (#13633729)
If you show most of your customers a factory slaughterhouse chicken being killed and packaged, or a grass-fed truly free-ranging chicken being taken inside and killed and packaged, they will actually have a worse reaction to the second one.

Most people cannot really identify with thousands of chickens in a cage being processed by a machine - but they can identify with a single chicken happily running around outside being taken and killed. So paradoxically, the second image would actually be something they see as even more cruel.

Informing people about this has to be done in a very clever way to ensure that people don't connect the packaged breast they buy with the actual chicken running around outside. One slip up, and your label becomes worse than the factory chickens.

While the people who choose to come for a farm tour likely know what to expect, the 'average' consumer would not react in the same way to being told that they're eating this happy, free ranging chicken. As with all marketing, it's important to come from a position of your customer's lifestyle than your own where you 'know' about death.

To put it in a completely different context - think about Target and their new bathroom policy. On the surface it seems great, and everyone supports it. The label is wonderful and everyone wants to be part of that movement. But when it actually comes time to go to a bathroom, many women freak out and refuse to actually enter that bathroom anymore. It's even costing Target customers, and now pulling back the policy would cost them even more. Marketing isn't easy and you need to fully understand what you're doing before you end up creating a marketing campaign that actually harms your business.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by tracker1 on Sunday February 12, 2017 @05:24PM (#13631381)
I wish that more meat products labelled the feed used... I find that influences flavor more than anything.. and other than when beef is "grass fed" often isn't to be found. In particular egg taste/flavor can vary so much it isn't funny.
Re:Whole Foods is struggling by idiot_stick on Sunday February 12, 2017 @08:01AM (#13628139)
>Mackey has publicly admitted he vastly regrets taking WFM to Wall Street.

Same story we hear from Silicon Valley on occasion: they regret the loss of control of the company, but not the massive payday.

The fact that this chain suffers because there is so much competition for better produce is net positive. Whole Foods doesn't exist where I come from. But big chains with organic sections (even discount chains) do.

Re:Whole Foods is struggling by massysett on Sunday February 12, 2017 @07:19AM (#13628020)
I will not shop a store where I need a tour to teach me how to "affordably shop" the store. Fail.