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Re:Driving – An extinction event by spunker540 on Saturday February 11, 2017 @10:30AM (#13623027)
I'm mostly tired of reading all the self-driving hype by now- I know it's coming and its gonna be great. But I had never thought about the ramifications for police forces before! I think a decent amount of government revenue will be lost and not as many officers required nationwide. Most people's only crimes end up being driving-related. And many arrests start with being pulled over too- dui's, drug possession, outstanding warrant etc.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Saturday February 11, 2017 @10:57AM (#13623125)
Many people don't realize how much of government has been crafted to support the automobile industry, effectively a subsidy. The obvious one is building roads, but we should also consider how laws have taken rights away from pedestrians and pedestrian-friendly builders. For example, many cities won't allow a new building without a parking lot moat.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by marcc on Saturday February 11, 2017 @11:38AM (#13623316)
I think we should start removing those regulations that require large parking lots for new construction. It's a little forward-thinking, but if the next shopping center/strip mall/whatever was built only with pickup/dropoff spots and not park-while-you-shop spots, that would both encourage people to ride share today and also build for the future.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by amyjess on Saturday February 11, 2017 @12:52PM (#13623741)
And then nearby residents sue the city and the developer for encouraging customers to park on their residential streets.

So, in Dallas, the parking requirements for restaurants depend on the amount of seating the restaurant has. A few restaurants got around that by building giant patios with several times the seating as inside, because the regulation doesn't consider outside seating as seating.

Residents complained about people parking on their streets and blocking their driveways, and they threatened massive lawsuits. The city council caved and passed a new regulation counting outdoor seating as seating, with no grandfather clause. Now these restaurants have to either build massive parking garages or close their doors.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Saturday February 11, 2017 @01:08PM (#13623822)
Ugh. Just enforce no parking in residential areas without the appropriate sticker, like most big cities do.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by freehunter on Saturday February 11, 2017 @01:50PM (#13624059)
Then when grandma comes to visit, she gets a parking ticket because she didn't get the right permit?

No, the better option is for shopping centers to have enough parking for the customers they anticipate having. Maybe giant parking lots suck, but a business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that.

I've lived in plenty of places where the stores were above the parking garages, and no one from the street could tell there was any parking at all. That's always an option.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Saturday February 11, 2017 @08:39PM (#13626071)
> comes to visit ... gets a parking ticket

Many neighborhoods that enforce parking permits have a card you can give your guests. Alternately, there may be paid parking nearby.

> business shouldn't be able to destroy a residential neighborhood like that.

Indeed, but I'd rather our laws and enforcement target the harm (non-residents taking your parking spot) and allow the nearby business to decide whether to offer parking or not. I've lived in and visited many large cities. All my favorite neighborhoods have solved this problem and for the most part the businesses chose to have very little parking, if any.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by ENTP on Monday February 13, 2017 @09:02PM (#13640602)
We have a system like this and for us it means borrowing a car is a PITA: You only get a permit for a vehicle registered in your name. So when we borrow a car, we are not allowed to park it outside our own house.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @12:42PM (#13645394)
Then I'd lobby for changing that system rather than for forcing the creation of more parking lots.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by grok2 on Saturday February 11, 2017 @12:35PM (#13623630)
What about the businesses themselves in these malls/centers...would they survive the transition? In can't be just the design of the mall that is considered, but the entire area around the mall....everything should work together.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by marcc on Saturday February 11, 2017 @12:45PM (#13623702)
Absolutely the entire area should be thought about. Removing the regulation to require a parking lot doesn't seem harmful today. I'm not advocating a restriction or a tax on parking lots here, just removing the requirement that every new construction have a certain number of parking spots.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by ghaff on Saturday February 11, 2017 @12:33PM (#13623615)
It would most likely result in people simply avoiding the next shopping center/strip mall/whatever because it's such a hassle to go there. Just as I rarely go to downtown areas today where parking is a hassle.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by calvano915 on Saturday February 11, 2017 @03:48PM (#13624711)
Las Vegas casinos have started charging for parking after decades of being known for not doing so. This occurred after the newest large projects were built without large/any parking to accommodate drivers visiting those projects. I cannot speak for the impacts on locals visiting the Strip as this is still a new thing, but I do know that:

- The casinos are making an additional $7+/day from every vehicle parking on their properties (those who haven't found a way to get free parking, including being on a higher than lowest gaming tier).

- MGM Resorts started the trend, and within months Wynn and Caesars followed suit. The increased revenue in MGM's case was to fund an additional paid parking garage.

- All future projects will probably follow suit and limit the amount of spaces.

Throughout all of this, the only big improvement in public transit discussed has been some kind of rail option going down the Strip in the future. Otherwise, it seems to be that locals will pay more by either paying to park or using ride hailing/taxis. In other words, not necessarily moving us forward in transit efficiency and additional revenue to the benefit of a few companies.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by ghaff on Saturday February 11, 2017 @07:13PM (#13625724)
This caught me by surprise the last time I was in Vegas for an event although, as it turned out, my rate included parking. I don't know enough about Las Vegas dynamics to know all the rationale behind this. I do know that gaming has dropped percentage-wise as a revenue source.

I imagine the impact on visitors isn't that great. I know I won't rent a car unless I'm going outside of the city and it's just cheaper/easier to keep it while I'm staying on the strip. For locals, I imagine it will make some pay more and some switch to off-strip casinos but the higher gaming tiers still get comped anyway.

ADDED: I've been told that one of the issues was increased freeloading by people going away on trips and parking at strip hotels, especially Mandalay Bay but I'm not sure how much to credit that given other solutions that don't involve charging everyone for parking.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by JBReefer on Saturday February 11, 2017 @02:20PM (#13624221)
Ah yes, this of course is why urban cores nationwide are so cheap and empty!

Honestly though, this is your experience and nearly decade of car-hostile planning has paid dividends in cities across the country, even if it doesn't work for all use cases. The suburbs and car-centered world only work in a single use case.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by ArkyBeagle on Saturday February 11, 2017 @03:44PM (#13624700)
I worked in Montreal for a while. It has a fully self-sufficient downtown, and world class public transport.

But if you drove to a WalMart in a suburb, there would be 20 checkers open with ten or twenty people queued up for each.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @06:15PM (#13648224)
Walmart is cheap and doesn't have locations in the city. Target will occasionally pick a city site and not bother with parking.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by XorNot on Saturday February 11, 2017 @11:01AM (#13623144)
That's because the results of not doing this are pretty reliably dreadful on surrounding traffic.

This is just sensible town-planning.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by barrkel on Saturday February 11, 2017 @12:27PM (#13623573)
That's not true. The parking lot moats discourage density and make walking a real chore. The lack of density makes public transport less economical. Allocating enormous amounts of space to parking virtually guarantees that more people will drive.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by freehunter on Saturday February 11, 2017 @01:53PM (#13624067)
Chicken and egg. You can't have one store decide to not have a parking lot, because no one would go there. You could require all stores to be densely packed with no parking lots, but you can't force existing businesses to move or rip out their parking lots, so that would fail too.

Believe it or not, we actually have businesses that are so dense that walking between them not only makes sense, it's the only way to get around. They're called "shopping malls" and everyone hates them.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by barrkel on Saturday February 11, 2017 @04:38PM (#13624974)
Shopping malls aren't disliked because they're dense - though the crowds don't help. Shopping malls are artificially constructed and specifically designed for discomfort, to force people to shop. Public seating is kept to a minimum, and benches are designed without backs, or otherwise to be uncomfortable, so people can't rest for free. Every available viewpoint is covered with shopping opportunities, in a consumerist assault on the senses. However much inspiration malls had from European town centres, commercial imperatives altered the construct fundamentally since.
Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Saturday February 11, 2017 @08:46PM (#13626096)
> Chicken and egg.

Luckily, there are some developers with deep enough pockets that they can plan an entire district. It's been wonderful for revitalizing many blighted neighborhoods.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by ArkyBeagle on Saturday February 11, 2017 @03:42PM (#13624688)
It might be considered a sort-of subsidy, but ultimately, the people who own land fronting on a road are the main beneficiaries.

I also cannot frame a disparity in mass as "taking away rights." It only gets worse if this is identity politics.

Don't get me wrong - people commuting alone in a car an hour or two a day is simply obscene.

The article does a great job of identifying that the experiment in making all people drivers has failed, though. As long as I live, I'll never understand how people can be so blase about such high risk behavior.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Saturday February 11, 2017 @08:49PM (#13626111)
> identity politics

I don't know what you mean by that.

> cannot frame disparity in mass as "taking away rights"

I'm guessing you're referring to the difference in the mass of an automobile and a person. Right-of-way laws are only one of the policies that I'm referring to, but that in particular was/is in fact taking away rights. Pedestrians had the right to cross the street at any place or time until automobile manufacturers ran marketing campaigns (such as inventing the term "Jay walking") and lobbied to change laws.

Of course there should be some compromise, to promote safety and convenience, but perhaps we erred too much on the side of the automobile.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by ArkyBeagle on Sunday February 12, 2017 @11:56AM (#13629167)
Of course I mean disparity in mass :)

"Walkability" is inherently political ( goes to land use ) , and it's strongly correlated at least with people's identity.

Cars have been about for 100 years, but it's only recently that there's been any writing to the effect of there being conflict. I think the basic mindset of drivers is a lot the problem, but it should be clear that as a pedestrian, you cannot trust car drivers to be very aware. There's only so much gain to be had there with things like rule changes.

I see this as an extension of "everything is a college campus" but maybe that's just me.

Re:Driving – An extinction event by xapata on Tuesday February 14, 2017 @05:38PM (#13647941)
> only recently

Perhaps you should do a more thorough literature review.

The NYT reported, "Nation roused against motor killings" in 1924.

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/murder-machines/

Re:Driving – An extinction event by edblarney on Saturday February 11, 2017 @11:23AM (#13623229)
Government workers unions will not allow anyone to be laid off.

Since the dawn of modern governance at about the turn of the last century, governments everywhere have been going in one direction: expansion.

So they'll find other things for cops to do :)

On day, about 2030, a Scandinavian country will 'ban human driving' citing safety risks. Then California, and NYC.

In 2070, you'll sneak your grandchildren into an old Buick in and take them for a spin around some old parking lot - and your daughter in law will freak right out and get seriously pissed at you, threatening to call the police. 'Those crazy old people who actually think they can drive' ...

Re:Driving – An extinction event by tyingq on Saturday February 11, 2017 @11:32AM (#13623288)
Just saw a news story on TV yesterday saying that US DUI arrests are down significantly, mostly due to services like Uber and Lyft.