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Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by luhn on Friday February 10, 2017 @02:48PM (#13618290)
Well, Moore's law is already dead. Intel missed the mark last year.

As far as shrinking transistors further, isn't 7nm the physical limit?

Edit: I'm mistaken. Transistors as small as 1nm have been developed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_nanometer#Technology_demos

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by sqeaky on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:48PM (#13618763)
Only for some interpretations of Moore's law. The strictest readings count transistors in CPUs. But plenty take it as a general prediction in the doubling of performance of hardware.

Computing things still get cheaper as more tech gets included. For example, Someone working in AI or video games can drop a $1000 on a Cuda enabled GPU and get more than a 10x more performance increase then they could reasonably get with that $1000 3 years earlier. This is much more than the two doublings some interpretations of Moore's law predicts.

Not all performance increases are going to be inside the most complex part.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by dogma1138 on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:36PM (#13618656)
It's important to note that none of the processes actually describe a physical size anymore. They used too now it's just PR, a 10nm 14nm or 7nm processes don't actually have anything that is the process "size" in size. Together with various optimization the process name is "analogous" to a hypothetical CMOS lithography with of that scale.
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by Analemma_ on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:15PM (#13618492)
When transistors stop shrinking- whether that's at 10, 5 or 7nm- the limit is going to be economic, not physical. Intel probably could make a chip with 1nm transistors; the question is whether it would ever deliver a positive ROI, since

- the R&D and the fabs would probably cost a zillion dollars, in a shrinking market for high-performance CPUs

- yields would probably be very low, even as the process matured - this problem is becoming more and more pronounced with the latest generations

- the advantages over the current chips would not be great; note svantana's comment about diminishing returns with the most recent process shrink

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by curiousgal on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:37PM (#13618667)
>a shrinking market for high-performance CPUs

It is??

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by AnimalMuppet on Friday February 10, 2017 @04:34PM (#13619099)
Well, for chips that are, say, twice as fast as the best current chips for three times the money, I suspect that the market is in fact shrinking, because for most people, current chips are good enough.

There's still plenty of people who want more speed badly enough to pay for it, but my impression is that there aren't as many as there used to be.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by ethbro on Friday February 10, 2017 @05:41PM (#13619556)
Or in other words, the market for single-chip performance is shrinking.

The hyperscale folks care about how much physical space given performance takes, but that's likely more energy/performance than chipcount/performance constrained.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by tracker1 on Friday February 10, 2017 @04:43PM (#13619169)
Agreed, there's still plenty of people hitting pain with Image/Video processing, 3D development (design or programming), 4K video/gaming/modelling are definitely still out there...

Upgraded to an i7-4790K almost 2 years ago, and while not willing to drop another $1500 to upgrade to the latest CPU/MB, I have been keeping an eye open.

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by tracker1 on Friday February 10, 2017 @04:41PM (#13619150)
That was my thought too... Facebook, Google/GCE, Amazon/AWS, Azure, U.S. and Chinese governments probably account for most CPU purchases from Intel.
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by deepnotderp on Friday February 10, 2017 @06:49PM (#13619960)
The "super 7" as they're called, account for ~60% of Intel's data center revenue, which accounts for ~60% of their profit.

7 companies provide Intel with 36% of its profit...

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by kdeldycke on Saturday February 11, 2017 @06:48PM (#13625609)
The "Super 7" are: Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Baidu, Alibaba and Tencent.

Source: http://fortune.com/2015/11/15/intel-super-7/

Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by anoonmoose on Friday February 10, 2017 @07:44PM (#13620217)
I mean, that's bog-standard 80-20 rule stuff, innit?
Re:Intel Confirms 8th Gen Core on 14nm, Data Center First to... by deepnotderp on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:37PM (#13618668)
There's a BIG difference between transistors being developed and having sustainable manufacturing processes and good yields. Intel actually taped out an internal chip on 10nm, but then "mysteriously" scrapped it. Likely because of bad yields...

And that's not even dealing with the demon of quantum tunneling which IMO will likely kill node shrinks even harder.

Finally, the other comment is right, Dennard scaling is dead, and thermals have become the primary constraint in chip design. FinFETs have somewhat helped with this, but it's not enough.