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Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by gpderetta on Friday February 10, 2017 @11:35AM (#13616628)
> HFT generates and cancels orders on magnitudes like this all day long, but they have to be allowed to do so because it "creates markets",

No, they are allowed because HFT firms have the intention to (and in fact, will gladly) trade.

Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by jandrese on Friday February 10, 2017 @04:09PM (#13618927)
Sort of true. They will do the trade, but only if there was already someone in the system willing to make the same trade. HFT firms don't hold positions at the end of the day.
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by eridius on Friday February 10, 2017 @05:17PM (#13619405)
AIUI, the difference is that, at the moment the HFTs place the order, they have every intention of filling them. Just because they might change their mind a fraction of a second later and modify their orders isn't particularly relevant.

Whereas spoofing is placing orders that you don't have any intention of filling. The only point of the orders is to move the market, rather than to actually make trades. And that's the thing that's illegal.

Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by roganp on Friday February 10, 2017 @11:20PM (#13620991)
Therein lies the rub. How can regulators or prosecutors discern after the fact that a canceled order was one you intended to have filled?
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by jondubois on Friday February 10, 2017 @03:42PM (#13618709)
I don't think the intention matters if the result is the same.
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by kolbe on Friday February 10, 2017 @05:53PM (#13619631)
Well, the law doesn't really say anything beyond "manipulative devices" and "contrivances," but right now, judges have kinda ruled that intention matters. But we don't know much, because most of these cases get settled out of court, so we don't have a robust case law to base any of this off of. Basically, if you participate in a financial transaction in any way, be prepared to be accused of a crime.
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by hermitdev on Friday February 10, 2017 @10:30PM (#13620809)
Intention mostly matters, sometimes doesn't. Sometimes the left arm doesn't talk to the right arm and conflicting orders go out. Technically this could be construed as spoofing, but sometimes it's business unit A not talking to business unit B, because A isn't in the same location as B, or there's a Chinese Firewall between A & B. It might not be intentional spoofing, but it can happen, anyway.
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by lsadam0 on Friday February 10, 2017 @07:22PM (#13620130)
The law strongly disagrees, and for good reason. See: manslaughter vs murder.
Re:How the Flash Crash Trader’s $50M Fortune Vanished by gpderetta on Friday February 10, 2017 @05:47PM (#13619590)
it matters because the law says it matters.