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Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by csallen on Friday February 03, 2017 @08:12PM (#13564946)
I could be wrong, but I believe the issue is not that 34% of households can't afford Internet, but that the eligibility requirements for this problem are so lax that they cover 34% of households, despite the fact that many of them can afford Internet on their own.

From the linked document: "The average annual household income of those eligible for Lifeline support is roughly $38,000. Numerous families with incomes at that level already subscribe to broadband."

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by aianus on Friday February 03, 2017 @08:59PM (#13565182)
$38k to support a whole household sounds pretty poor to me.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by csallen on Friday February 03, 2017 @09:32PM (#13565299)
I agree, but the question at hand is not whether or not $38k is "poor", but whether $38k is "too poor to afford the internet".
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by bluejekyll on Friday February 03, 2017 @09:44PM (#13565335)
I grew up in a family of 6 on 38k a year, I can guarantee that's too poor, even in the country. That was in the 80's, it must be even worse now.

At those incomes all your financial decisions are about food and housing, and hopefully getting clothing donations. Let alone trying to think about educating your kids to try and get them out.

This is a lifeline to people, and helps educate their children. We should be doing more as a society to help those at the bottom.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by deelowe on Saturday February 04, 2017 @12:03PM (#13567711)
$38k in the 80s was a pretty decent wage. Hardly poor. $38,000 in 1985 would be roughly $87,000 today. That's solidly within middle class.

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/which-income...

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by bluejekyll on Saturday February 04, 2017 @01:03PM (#13568059)
I did not intend to imply that my family was poor, only that we struggled with that income in suburban PA.

The reason I posted that is because I find it very difficult to believe that any family of 1 or more children on an income of 40k a year today would have a comfortable life, and affording broadband Internet would be difficult.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by nugget on Friday February 03, 2017 @11:21PM (#13565622)
I was raised in similar circumstances and I wouldn't even consider it poor, let alone ''too poor''. $38k in 1985 is around $80k today. Sufficient to cover 4 kids in most rural and inland suburban parts of the US. This is Dave Ramsey's middle class, middle America audience. For these families it's not what they make, it's what they spend that determines the outcome.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by gowld on Saturday February 04, 2017 @01:38AM (#13565947)
1985 dollars are not relevant to a 2017 program.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by luck_fenovo on Saturday February 04, 2017 @08:00AM (#13566828)
He is responding to someone who claimed that 38k in the 1980s was too poor to raise a family on period, it's a tangent but you're complaining to the wrong person imo
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by guelo on Saturday February 04, 2017 @07:42AM (#13566788)
You got it backwards, $38k today is $16k in 1985. Basically poor people.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by csallen on Saturday February 04, 2017 @10:01AM (#13567168)
Actually bluejekyll got it backwards, and nugget provided an accurate response.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by bluejekyll on Saturday February 04, 2017 @10:41AM (#13567307)
No. I didn't get it backwards. Someone raising a family today on 38k is is roughly equivalent to somone making 16k in the 80s.

Which is exactly my point. In the 80s on 38k a year it meant that we could not afford many of the things that others had. New shoes/clothes etc. my parents luckily focused on education, and other quality of life things, rather than spending on frivolous things, like cable. I'd say cable was roughly equivalent to internet today. So that was a choice that they made to go without. And I say Internet would probably have been the same type of decisions.

So while 80k today may be equivalent to 40k from the 80s, I would say 80k for a family of 4 kids would be hard, 40k would be exponentially harder.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by nugget on Saturday February 04, 2017 @12:10PM (#13567752)
I think your parents may have made a conscious choice to keep cable out of the home for other, non-financial reasons (as did mine).

By the mid 1980s only about half of households had basic cable.[1] In Chicago, there were complaints about a price hike to $13/month.[2]

Housing costs are the problem. The move to dual-income households, the drop in interest rates, and the population boom caused certain real estate markets to appreciate at a level far above incomes and inflation. The coastal home my parents purchased in the early 1980s has appreciated 10x in value. A similar home in the mid-western state capital of their youth has appreciated 3x over the same period. This is why I called the scenario with 4 kids doable in some (most) parts of the country, but certainly not all.

[1] http://www.tvhistory.tv/Cable_Households_77-99.JPG [2] http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1985/12/30/page/15/articl...

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by gowld on Saturday February 04, 2017 @01:37AM (#13565944)
> average

~half of those households earn more

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by Adverblessly on Saturday February 04, 2017 @03:14AM (#13566198)
Sorry for nitpicking, but "~half of those households earn more" would have been true if they were talking about median income, not average income.

While many of the commonly seen distributions have median==average, income usually follows a more exponential distribution with the average exceeding the median due to a "heavy tail".

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by icantdrive55 on Friday February 03, 2017 @09:26PM (#13565279)
There's two ways to become eligible.

A. Program based (enrolled in Medi-cal, SSI, Food stamp program. (These programs are not easy to qualify for.)

B. Income based (1-2 household: can't make more than 25,900. That includes all income, including gifts. If you have 10 family members you can make $74,900.

I don't think it's "so lax".

They credit a little under $10 bucks a month. So it's a landline, or a lousy cell phone. You still end up paying the rest of the bill. It's not free. (The cell phone providers take the subsidy hoping/praying the customer will go over their credit. "Then we can bill the lousey service!"

I can't imagine a internet provider service for that less than $10 credit. (There must be a catch?)

People complain about the free phones some poor poeople get. It's a horrid cell phone. If you qualify, get the landline, and it's only for local calls.

These days government programs know a lot about households. The Internet has stopped a lot of the fraud. People are very poor, but so many Americans believe the poor are cheating in some way? Those days are kinda over. Big brother knows everything--yea! The Rebublicans stil believe the slackers are cheating the system. Sad.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by hermannj314 on Saturday February 04, 2017 @10:03AM (#13567175)
> That includes all income, including gifts.

Many who make claims of poverty can be disengenuous. Income generally excludes non-cash payments from other government programs. You "make" 25,900 a year and get to keep claiming poverty after free healthcare, free housing, free food, free daycare, free internet, free bus transit, etc.

It is the way it calculated, but most of these "poor" live very good lives significantly in excess of their paper poverty. Sometimes far better lives than those making just enough to not qualify for government assistance at all.

This happens in my midwest suburb commonly. It is an unfortunate side effect, more for the middle class than for the poor.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by technofiend on Saturday February 04, 2017 @10:29AM (#13567252)
I've been so poor I had to try out that "free healthcare" and it nearly killed me. It may be free in the sense of little or no monetary cost but if anyone has a mental image of gleaming hospitals full of doctors waiting to serve patients they are sadly mistaken. Patients are forced to trade time instead of money for their healthcare, assuming they can get it all.

When you are forced into the bottom tier of the medical system you're competing with every other patient with a complaint from constipation to gunshot wounds. These hospitals do not have unlimited resources and triage patients based on need.

The result is someone like me who had an upper respiratory infection slowly getting worse and turning into pneumonia can sit for a day or two in the emergency room waiting for a shot.

I don't know if you're ever had a full blown case of pneumonia but as someone who did and still has scarring in their lungs it's no joke. You slowly drown from the buildup in your lungs and there's nothing you can do but hope the antibiotics outrace the infection before you can no longer breathe.

Does sitting around Ben Taub Hospital in a plastic chair for more than a day sound like "living a pretty good life" to you? I assure you, it is not.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by hermannj314 on Saturday February 04, 2017 @10:36AM (#13567278)
I think you think I was making an argument I didnt make.

I am not claiming free healthcare is of equal quality to any other healthcare, and I am sorry your experience was so shitty.

Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by jacobolus on Friday February 03, 2017 @11:14PM (#13565610)
There are some folks cheating the system like those right-wing militia ranchers who “adopt” dozens of orphaned children and then make them do hard labor, while collecting state support for it.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by enraged_camel on Saturday February 04, 2017 @02:12AM (#13566038)
This sounds about as real as the "welfare queens driving Cadillacs" myth.
Re:The FCC is stopping 9 companies from providing subsidized... by jacobolus on Saturday February 04, 2017 @04:48AM (#13566416)
e.g. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/get-the-government-s-han...

Obviously this isn’t a widespread problem though, and should be dealt with on a case by case basis.