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Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by readhn on Saturday January 21, 2017 @01:55PM (#13451437)
There is no investment. There is only speculation. Speculation that the asset price will increase. Speculation that your purchase will return higher value in the future. In order to be successful at speculation you do have to have certain talents and character traits. Study most successful speculators of or times and you will see certain patterns and common traits.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by valuearb on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:07PM (#13451509)
Speculation is the purchase of investments where you don't have a clear idea of the value of the investment, and are gambling on the direction of the market price.

Actual investment is usually called "value investing", you purchase assets at a substantial discount to their intrinsic value and wait for the market to recognize that value. True value investing is rarely practiced on Wall Street because Wall Street is mostly about the latest fad and charging fat fees to the uninformed. And when Wall Street firms tout themselves as "Value" they are typically just buying low PE stocks, which isn't actual value investing at all.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by senthil_rajasek on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:15PM (#13451564)
You should quote your sources. These are ideas from Ben Graham.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by jabgrabdthrow on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:20PM (#13451588)
You have to quote your sources for the concept of "value investing"? Did I miss a joke?
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by senthil_rajasek on Sunday January 22, 2017 @12:41AM (#13453796)
"value investing" gets thrown around a lot without proper attribution. It's a very specific investment style proposed by Ben Graham. The reason why I like attribution is a) I know that it's the specific thing being talked about b) It gives credit to the originator of the ideas ( especially in the investing circles) since investing is an area where a lot of charlatans like to take advantage of gullible people by looking smart.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by grzm on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:19PM (#13451581)
I think the terms used above are now pretty well known to those who know something about investing. While it might add information to include their names, I'm not sure if attributing Ben Graham and David Dodd are necessary at this point.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by JumpCrisscross on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:32PM (#13451639)
> the terms used above are now pretty well known to those who know something about investing

The speculation-investing definitions where "investing" is defined as "value investing" is specific to the Graham-Dodd school of thought. These are not generally-accepted economic definitions. For example, Index investing isn't "investing" per Graham-Dodd.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by charlesism on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:10PM (#13451525)

    > Study most successful speculators of or times and 
    > you will see certain patterns and common traits.
Most of the traits that come to my mind are unflattering. The chance of making money by legal means is far lower than by insider trading, or market manipulation.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by valuearb on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:11PM (#13451537)
Maybe in speculation, but Buffett is the most successful investor of all time and his honesty is pretty much unquestionable.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by JumpCrisscross on Saturday January 21, 2017 @03:12PM (#13451848)
> but Buffett is the most successful investor of all time

Last I checked, Renaissance Technologies and Vista Equity Partners outperform Buffett. RenTech is the opposite of a value investor and Vista does technology LBOs.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by charlesdm on Saturday January 21, 2017 @03:02PM (#13451784)
The exact opposite to Buffet (value investor) is probably Carl Icahn (speculator). Granted, Icahn has had some major fuckups along the way, probably more than buffet, but he invested well over the years. But both operate in a different way. Soros is another.

There's no one way to invest -- you have to find a way that works for you.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by charlesism on Saturday January 21, 2017 @04:38PM (#13452288)
I don't know enough about Warren Buffett to emphatically hold an opinion either way. I agree his public persona and life story (or myth, I honestly don't know) reflect well upon him, but "unquestionable" is a strong statement.

Having said that, I agree my comment was a bit hyperbolic. The truth is probably a bit less bleak.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by xyzzy4 on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:00PM (#13451464)
That's not true in the long term. For example if you buy a house and then rent it, you will eventually earn back the cost of buying it, unless there is some kind of disaster in the market. Stocks are really no different.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by rm_-rf_slash on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:02PM (#13451479)
The quality of tenant is also somewhat based in luck. If they are a pain in the ass then the time lost may outweigh the cash gained.
[dead]
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by sctb on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:43PM (#13456469)
This account has been using this site primarily for political or ideological purposes, and that's not what it's for. Please don't continue on like this.
Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by notpc on Sunday January 22, 2017 @01:52PM (#13456535)
Given that certain opinions are very unpopular around here, why should I be forced to use my primary account to post on political topics?

If you look through the comment history of this account, I think you'll find that the posts are all very civil.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by YZF on Saturday January 21, 2017 @06:27PM (#13452696)
When you go to the casino and put $100K on red on the roulette that's speculation. When you use the $100K to go to college and get an engineering degree that's an investment.

There's no guarantee your investment will yield a reward but there's a better probability than gambling (let's just say better than 50/50 for that matter). An investment is putting money towards something that has a good probability of yielding a return, be it your education, renovating your house, a new car, shares in Coca Cola, or US government bonds.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by froogle on Saturday January 21, 2017 @02:55PM (#13451747)
This is getting into semantics, but:

Nothing about investing in stocks is speculation, at least in the theoretical sense. Businesses earn profits. If you buy shares in a business, you are entitled to a share of those profits. Obviously, this gains you money, and this money will (usually) not come at the cost of the business. So, you'll gain money due to dividends, and your investment won't lose money.

Investing in stocks is going to be, on average, a net gain for you. In theory. And mostly in practice, see for example the massive exponential gains in the S&P 500.

There's a lot more to things. For example, sometimes businesses fail and you'll have lost all your money. And on the flip side, maybe a business will grow enormously. But this just adds noise to the data, it doesn't change the fact that, on average, you should make money on stocks in the long-term.

If you just buy a total market index fund, you're making a bet with a high expected value. That's not "speculation" in the same sense of going to a casino and playing blackjack or buying an asset which has no fundamental reason to rise in value (like precious metals).

So, I think it's misleading to call investing "speculation". It gives off the wrong vibes, since the way most people understand the word it makes it sounds like investing is super risky. (And yes, there's some risk, don't get me wrong, but not in the sense that it's a coin flip like many people think.)

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by MrFantastic on Saturday January 21, 2017 @04:46PM (#13452316)
Short term equity is speculation. Long term equity is more of an investment.

I think bonds are considered investment although to the price sell them before term fluctuates.

Re:Investing Is More Luck Than Talent by Godel_unicode on Saturday January 21, 2017 @03:39PM (#13452000)
> ...and you will see certain patterns and common traits.

Correlation!=causation

There absolutely is investment, consider the rise of socially-motivated ETFs. You can buy an index in:

  - green power ($ICLN)
  - smallcap biotech ($PSCH) (admittedly this is also used for speculation)
  - boardroom diversity ($SHE)
  - LGBT workforce ($EQLT)