We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13442967 and marked it off-topic.

How is this off topic? You may think it wasn't very nice but it's about the article and topic at hand.

You veered into personal attack. That's not civil and not ok. Please don't do it again.

Also, please stop using HN for ideological battle. That's not what this site is for.

Being upset does also not license this level of harassment. And frankly, people like you make it unpleasant every time I have to make the argument that the SJ crowd cannot be trusted with power, because frankly your behavior is an argument for giving them power. Like, Jesus Christ - know your audience, learn to read the room. Whether you're right or not, it doesn't even matter; this is not the right place and time to behave like this if you want to be effective.

And when is the issue of feminist overreach discussed, except when a feminist's actions have triggered discussion? Do you have a better "room"?

When people like you try to shut down debate by saying now is not the time, all you do is make things worse. That's how Trump wins: he doesn't try and "read the room" or bring things up at the "appropriate" times. He doesn't care about these rules social-justice types try and impose at all, because he knows there is never going to be a time when they're happy for their behaviour to be discussed.

Look.

:sigh:

I see what you're saying, okay? And I can totally empathize.

But look. Here's an apparently unrelated article on Magic the Gathering: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Mi...

It says that if you're facing a challenging task and under stress, like winning a game, there's an instinct to lose. I think the idea is that winning takes effort, and so we have a bias that makes us go "well, I'll charge all in and see if it works," and then it predictably doesn't work and we retreat into a sort of "hah, I knew I would lose!" because by taking the risk, we sort of licensed losing in our minds. Like, "you didn't beat me, I beat myself!" type of thing.

This is not the place to bring the topic up. I don't know if there is a better place to bring the topic up, but I feel like what motivates you to bring it up here may be something similar to that article, where you know you're going to get downvoted but at least you know why, and expect it, and that makes it acceptable. If you want to actually win, you have to avoid reactions like that. You have to be patient, and wait for the right time, and then use the right level of forcefulness, and signal in the right way, and make the right concessions, and it's hard, nobody is saying it's not, but would you rather lose on your terms or win?