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Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by ytruytr on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:30PM (#13412741)
A lot of the political pushback in the US is two major factors:

1) Rail systems are almost never profitable. The US, at least in spirit, doesn't like government subsidies. An investment in high speed rail entails paying taxes for it for many years or perhaps forever.

2) The US is much more rural than other developed countries. The land area compared to the population is huge compared to Europe/China/Japan. You almost need a car to get around because there's so much open space. Things are too far apart in many cases to make public transport realistic. Also, since nearly everyone has a car already the need for a rapid mode of transport is mostly met. Yeah it sucks in the big cities but a lot of the people that work there live far enough away that any rail system built would never reach their homes anyways.

You do see big public transport networks in places with extremely high density like New York, which has a similar density to most countries with well developed systems.

The notable exception I can think of to the trend is Russia, which has a lot of public transport compared to population density. This can probably be explained by a history of being a communist country as well as the relative lack of personal cars due to lower income and limited access to trade with countries that manufacture automobiles

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by dmix on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:44PM (#13412844)
> The US, at least in spirit, doesn't like government subsidies.

The US gives $0.6 trillion / yr in energy subsidies, about 70% of which goes to oil. Which reduces the cost of cars and trucks.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by adventured on Monday January 16, 2017 @04:00PM (#13412970)
Where are you getting the $420 billion per year in oil subsidies? US oil companies pay among the highest corporate income tax rates on the planet. Their taxes far exceed subsidies they receive.

$600 billion by comparison is the size of the US military and $420 billion is larger than the sales of Exxon + Chevron + Conoco + Occidental + EOG + Anadarko combined. It's an absurd claim.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by dmix on Monday January 16, 2017 @04:12PM (#13413088)
I was quoting Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

> The study found that "China was the biggest subsidizer in 2013 ($1.8 trillion), followed by the United States ($0.6 trillion), and Russia, the European Union, and India (each with about $0.3 trillion)."

> The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period.

Apologies, it seems fossil fuels get 70%. Not just oil.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by free652 on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:03PM (#13413422)
>A 2011 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc. (MISI)[28] estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950–2010. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $369 billion, $121 billion, and $104 billion (2010 dollars), respectively, or 70% of total energy subsidies over that period

Over 60 years.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by dmix on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:24PM (#13413578)
No, per year. Specifically $606 billion in 2013.

The cited study from the sentence I referenced in my comment:

> Estimated subsidies are $4.9 trillion worldwide in 2013 and $5.3 trillion in 2015 (6.5% of global GDP in both years).

> In terms of countries, China had the largest absolute post-tax subsidies in 2013 ($1,844 billion or 19.5% of GDP), followed by United States ($606 billion or 3.6% of GDP), Russia ($318 billion or 15.2% of GDP), European Union ($295 billion), India ($269 billion or 14.3% of GDP), Japan ($142 billion or 2.9% of GDP), Saudi Arabia ($129 billion or 17.2% of GDP) and Iran ($118 billion or 32.2% of GDP).

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305750X16...

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by free652 on Monday January 16, 2017 @06:03PM (#13413817)
Here is the study that you quoted, it's total.

http://www.misi-net.com/publications/NEI-1011.pdf

edit:

The other study that you provided includes global warming and air pollution as a "subsidy", no offense but that's pushing the definition.

http://imgur.com/a/hNm6a

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by kevinnk on Monday January 16, 2017 @06:25PM (#13413976)
I'm pretty sure you're correct and those numbers are total since 1950. However, the study does seem confusingly worded - in the footnote on page 1 it says:

"All estimates quoted are in constant 2010 dollars, unless otherwise noted, and refer to actual expenditures in the relevant fiscal year, rounded to the nearest billion"

At least to me that reads like "all estimates refer to expenditures from the relevant fiscal year only". However, they later quote the same numbers as being "total spending since 1950". Am I just missing an obvious interpretation for the footnote?

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by NamTaf on Monday January 16, 2017 @08:19PM (#13414469)
I think you are. I interpret that as the estimates for each year are quoted in 2010 dollars unless noted and that those estimates (that is, the ones for each year) refer to actuals in each of those years. Then they are summed to produce the $600b.

"from the relevant fiscal year" implies that each value relates to a corresponding fiscal year. Your addition of 'only' is redundant.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by kevinnk on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @04:53AM (#13416234)
But the estimates the footnote is referring to are in the first table. Those are not per year but already summed; there's no corresponding fiscal year to refer to (I think?).

Regardless, this is a tiny point so I'll drop it. I still feel confused though :(

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by zachwood on Monday January 16, 2017 @04:19PM (#13413133)
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by scott_karana on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @05:33PM (#13422102)
> Rail systems are almost never profitable. The US, at least in spirit, doesn't like government subsidies.

Excuse me? Japan privatized its rail system in the late 80s, doesn't subsidize any of the JR companies[1][2] (which are all publicly traded to boot), and has a profitable enough industry that there are now numerous private operators[3] of various sizes who successfully compete.[4]

1 http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurelevel-play...

2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan

3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyu_Corporation, and see the box at the bottom for lots more

4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Greater_Tokyo#Oth...

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by xbeta on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:00PM (#13413411)
I do agree completely with your statement on rural area with population. It's a fact that nobody can argue with.

But to think about it more, why do people have to live in such lifestyle with so much open "wasted" spaces?

Why everyone "has a car already"? All we talk about is the American lifestyle which most American still refuse to adapt or look different.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by Karrot_Kream on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:24PM (#13413570)
I don't know as much about China, but having been to Japan several times, I can say that the rail networks of Japan only extend to the urban cores of a city. If you want to live in a suburban or rural area, you have to get by with a car or take the local bus everywhere, which is slow. US urban rail infrastructure is already present, it just does not have the same frequency that Japanese rail has.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by nialv7 on Monday January 16, 2017 @04:13PM (#13413092)
If you've been to Tokyo or Shanghai/Beijing, you would know the New York public transport system is not well developed at all.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by free652 on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:08PM (#13413459)
NYC is one of the best system. It pretty much covers most of the city 24/7. I have yet to see a system that has similar coverage and frequency.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by Larrikin on Monday January 16, 2017 @07:02PM (#13414161)
24/7 is in fact a negative as the state of the DC Metro and NYC system show especially in comparison to Tokyo's multiple system.

There's not enough time to do proper repairs and improvements.

What I don't understand is why more cities don't operate like Philly and operate 24 hour bus service in place of the trains at night. With a system like that the night workers can still get to work as early as others and the bar crowd can still go out with out the craziness of last train like in Tokyo.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by free652 on Monday January 16, 2017 @08:47PM (#13414549)
NYC has buses covering pretty much the same routes as subway, it just takes much longer. Personally I use express buses for commute and these are amazing, though twice as expensive.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by Larrikin on Wednesday January 18, 2017 @12:52AM (#13424350)
Some metro systems have a 24/7 bus system, but Philly's is an exact replacement for the trains. They don't make all the extra stops of the buses that serve similar routes. I'm unaware of anywhere else that does this
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by djhworld on Monday January 16, 2017 @04:46PM (#13413315)
The Shanghai metro, while pleasant to travel on and incredibly cheap, closes at 11pm.

At least the NY subway is 24/7

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by kk_cz on Wednesday January 18, 2017 @08:24AM (#13426121)
I've been to both Beijing and NYC as a tourist and I don't quite understand what do you have in mind. If anything I preferred the system in NYC.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by akshayn on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:44PM (#13412845)
Highways (tolls) tend to be far less profitable than rail systems (ticket sales). If the US didn't like government subsidies, we wouldn't have built all these highways.
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by twoodfin on Monday January 16, 2017 @06:19PM (#13413923)
A moderate increase in user fees (gas taxes today, mileage fees in an electric future) could readily fund all capital and maintenance costs for the US interstate system. Gas wouldn't have to be that much more expensive than it was 4-5 years ago. The system would endure and could even be profitable.

No such fee structure could plausibly fund any rail system outside the NE Corridor. Prices adequate to sustain the network, let alone build it up, would put ridership into a death spiral.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by Alupis on Monday January 16, 2017 @05:21PM (#13413547)
> If the US didn't like government subsidies, we wouldn't have built all these highways

You can't disregard the history of the highways, or the reason they were first built - for the military in the name of national security.

Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by ytruytr on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:45PM (#13412859)
Do you have a source on this? In my state the government used the tolls roads as a cash cow, they were massively profitable. The funny thing was the toll roads still sucked because they dumped all the money into the general fund to pay for everything else
Re:China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network by chiph on Monday January 16, 2017 @03:58PM (#13412948)
Just like about a quarter of the motor-fuels tax that is supposed to go into the highway trust fund.