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Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by nailer on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @08:54AM (#13364698)
The 'Touch Bar' is a plainly stopgap measure that only exists because Apple is delaying the painful transition to touch in OS X.

Microsoft underwent that pain early in Windows 8 and the first few not-particularly-good Surface devices, and (with Windows 10 and the SP4) is there now.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by audunw on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:15AM (#13364842)
I can't really see that there's any signs that they will transition to touch on OS X. It also goes against what they've said publicly: they think mixing touch and mouse interface makes for a compromised interface which is not great for either.

But of course, Apple has a history of saying one thing publicly which contradict their later actions (webapps for the original iPhone vs. native apps)

I'm inclined to believe Apple in that they don't want to copy the MS surface (other than perhaps developing iPad more in that direction). I think it's a good idea to keep the desktop/laptop OS focused on mouse/keyboard interaction, especially since it's a bit awkward and unergonomic to use a touch screen while the laptop is standing.

But they may try to expand on the touch bar concept. Maybe they will replace the whole area below the keyboard with a touch screen as well. Maybe it will be more useful then. Hopefully they won't replace the keyboard. I prefer my laptop with a proper keyboard.

In theory it would be great if the keyboard surface could change between an actual keyboard and a full touch screen. But I don't see how that's physically possible.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by Gaelan on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @11:25AM (#13365994)
> webapps for the original iPhone vs. native apps

From what I've heard, Steve never wanted to do native apps, but he ended up caving to demand.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by visarga on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:11AM (#13364801)
You can't do touch on laptops because of hand fatigue. It's unnatural.
Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by nailer on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @10:08AM (#13365306)
Fold over the screen.
Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by gst on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:04AM (#13364758)
> The 'Touch Bar' is a plainly stopgap measure that only exists because Apple is delaying the painful transition to touch in OS X.

The transition to touch already happened with iOS. Apple still needs to keep macOS alive for a few legacy use-cases, but the long-term strategy is probably to move the remaining applications over to iOS, instead of converting macOS to iOS.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by coldtea on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:21AM (#13364882)
People keep saying that, as if it means something.

Some huge breakthrough in CPU power and technology aside, including changes to the laws of physics and basic ergonomics, we are not going to be doing desktopy-style work on iOS style devices -- unless they get the ability to drive large 4K+ monitors, connect to multiple peripherals at once, talk to disk drives, etc.

And even that would require hooking them with keyboards, stands etc for comfortable working.

People care for laptops/desktops for all the OTHER work and usage patterns that are not good fit for iOS/iDevice form factors.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by TorKlingberg on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:50AM (#13365152)
> drive large 4K+ monitors

Driving 4K screens from a tablet isn't that far off. It depends what you want to show on them of course, but just outputting 4K isn't that hard.

> connect to multiple peripherals at once

You're not supposed to have peripherals any more. Your touch screen, the cloud, and that's it. If necessary, hardware devices now connect to the cloud directly (while joining a botnet).

> talk to disk drives

You're supposed to buy more iCloud storage and have an infinite throughput connection.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by coldtea on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @10:18AM (#13365384)
>You're not supposed to have peripherals any more. Your touch screen, the cloud, and that's it. If necessary, hardware devices now connect to the cloud directly (while joining a botnet).

As I wrote, work that people can do with tablets, which fits with the above, they already do. But people care for desktops/laptops for all the other work you can't do without "peripherals", and with just "the cloud and that's it".

If we all just used web apps nobody would have cared for a desktop that much.

Besides, last time I've checked, the speed of light, which provides the lower limit for latency, is not changing anytime soon.

>You're supposed to buy more iCloud storage and have an infinite throughput connection.

A, I get it, it's a mockery of some supposed Apple idea. I don't think they are to that. If anything Google, with the Google office suite, Google run-everything-within-Chrome chromebooks etc is.

Apple is not really about convergence on the iOS -- they get the different uses cases for PC vs tablet-phone form factors and have made several statements to that effect -- they just don't care that much for the former.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by gst on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @10:33AM (#13365519)
> But people care for desktops/laptops for all the other work you can't do without "peripherals", and with just "the cloud and that's it".

I don't disagree. But is that market large enough for Apple to care about? Apple is pretty focused with its product line and it might not make sense for them to continue investing into the desktop market.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by coldtea on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @11:22AM (#13365969)
Well, let's ensure their mobile offerings don't end that well then. It worked for Microsoft.
Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by nailer on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @10:15AM (#13365344)
You disagreed with me but I think your argument is solid and people are voting you down without much reason.

iOS not only has better touch but (due to tight restrictions on background processing APIs ) way better interactive latency than MacOS, where a rogue process can still mean trying to fire up Activity Monitor. MacOS / NeXTSTEP might have a bunch of bitrot, iOS is newer, smaller and more likely cleaner. A version of xcode that works on iOS and more laptop-like devices could be a sign up OS X being on the way out.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by audunw on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @09:20AM (#13364876)
I don't think Apple has given completely up on macOS. They wouldn't do the touchbar if that was the case. It would be wasted effort. They could sell macOS for years just by iteratively updating the hardware specs.

I think they're trying to find a role for macOS that would allow them to innovate there, but I don't they have it figured out. The touchbar is just testing the waters, to see if it can make sense to do a dual approach (they've probably played with replacing the area below the keyboard with a touchscreen as well).

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by pgkl on Wednesday January 11, 2017 @07:54AM (#13373570)
What I'd like to see is something similar to Windows 10's "tablet mode"

An action within the UI to switch to a more iOS feel for use as an iPad style device, and vice-versa to a more Mac style device.

I imagine both macOs and iOs would have to drift more towards each other but that could be a suitable hyprid, and the prospect of actually having a fully functional Mac in my pocket that can be my phone on the go, and be plugged into a monitor later as my workstation is appealing.

Re:I returned my 2016 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar by intoverflow2 on Tuesday January 10, 2017 @12:08PM (#13366468)
It's a stopgap for a painful transition but the transition isn't to touch OS X it's MacBook Pro to iPad Pro.

Make no mistake if the iPad Pro didn't exist the MacBook Pro would have a heck of a lot more in common with the Surface Book.