> impossible

That's certainly not true. Try it. I've negotiated with a lot of outfits who claimed their prices were not negotiable. That's just a crock.

A good friend of mine is a successful businessman, and certainly does not need to negotiate. But he negotiates everything - it's entertainment for him. I'm constantly surprised at the amazing deals he gets on supposedly "non-negotiable" items, including medical bills.

> That's certainly not true. Try it.

Your suggestion is laughable. We asked three different hospitals what the cost for our daughter's birth was going to be; none of them could provide us with the answer until after the claim was submitted to our insurance. The out of pocket from the hospital we picked was $12k.

Now negotiating a bill down after the fact? Sure, if you can't afford to pay and document it, it can be done. But if you can afford to pay? Be prepared to be raked over the coals.

US healthcare sucks, and your anecdotal evidence is weak at best.

We had a home birth, and the billing was pretty straightforward. We paid $5k for the all care through the birth. However, we knew that if at any point the pregnancy became abnormal enough that we needed to transfer to hospital, we would be stuck paying whatever the hospital and our insurer agreed to, and we wouldn't get any of the $5k we paid to the midwives back.

You can ask them what the uninsured bill would be.

Why would I want to know that? It has no relation to what my actual out-of-pocket expense is going to be.

And I can have the exact same test done twice and get different bills.

I did. They would not provide the cash price. It does not exist.