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Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Sunday January 01, 2017 @04:12PM (#13297375)
How did Comey let her off easy if she didn't break any laws?
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Natsu on Sunday January 01, 2017 @04:52PM (#13297589)
Comey claimed not to have charged Clinton because there was a lack of intent. Gowdy is calling him on that, saying that this makes zero sense and going over all the ways they have to prove intent. His point at the end about "negligence" underscores the fact that the entire line of reasoning is nonsensical: intentional negligence is a contradiction in terms. That which is intentional cannot be negligent and vice versa. The law in question is against negligence (which does not require any intent whatsoever).

Just to underscore that, I just linked to a document where Colin Powell describes in detail how they're subverting the law: https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/30324

"However, there is a real danger. If it is public that you have a BlackBerry and it [is] government and you are using it, government or not, to do business, it may become an official record and be subject to the law. Reading about the President's BB rules this morning, it sounds like it won't be as useful as it used to be. Be very careful. I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data."

I don't think it's reasonable to let our politicians get away with this. Inasmuch as people are worried about Russian influence, it seems strange to me that there's no worry about the very leaders to jeopardize our OPSEC with their hubris. Here is Colin Powell, again, saying things that should make HN readers cringe:

"Now, the real issue had to do with PDAs, as we called them a few years ago before BlackBerry became a noun. And the issue was DS would not allow them into the secure spaces, especially up your way. When I asked why not they gave me all kinds of nonsense about how they gave out signals that could be read by spies, etc. Same reason they tried to keep mobile phones out of the suite. I had numerous meetings with them. We even opened one up for them to try to explain to me why it was more dangerous than say, a remote control for one of the many tvs in the suite. Or something embedded in my shoe heel. They never satisfied me and NSA/CIA wouldn't back off. So, we just went about our business and stopped asking. I had an ancient version of a PDA and used it. In general, the suite was so sealed that it is hard to get signals in or out wirelessly."

If the law is so toothless that high ranking people of either party (Powell is a Republican) can deliberately subvert them, then we're always going to be at the mercy of every country with half-decent spies. This is a problem in its own right, independent from whatever partisan considerations we have here.

===

Note: The square brackets in the quote are me fixing typos in the original.

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Sunday January 01, 2017 @05:39PM (#13297805)
You don't understand what intent means as it relates to the law. The particular law you are referring to is the Espionage Act. The case law (in particular, Gorin v. United States) establishes a bright line of scienter for application of this law, highlighting the text that says the defendant must have "intent or reason to believe that the information to be obtained is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation" in order to be in violation of the law. Intending to use a private email server with a Blackberry is not enough. She must intend to circumvent the security of the email system in order to harm the United States or help a foreign nation.
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Natsu on Monday January 02, 2017 @12:15AM (#13299220)
That's part (a), though and the talk I remember centered around 18 USC 793(f), which does not appear to depend on (a) as some of the other sections do, like (b) and (c).

The email between her & Powell would also make it interesting to see whether (g) applies.

For reference, here's 18 USC 793 - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Monday January 02, 2017 @01:16AM (#13299420)
You don't understand the difference between case law and statutory law. You are citing statutory law. The law as it stands is statutory law (how the law is written) amended by case law (how the courts have interpreted it). As I stated, case law as of Gorin v. United States invalidates the sections you cited and requires scienter.
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Natsu on Monday January 02, 2017 @11:02AM (#13301843)
Then look at this case which cites it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jin-Woo_Kim

The indictment is here: https://fas.org/sgp/jud/kim/082411-order.pdf

"Kim had a reason to believe that this information could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of a foreign nation"

There was a TS picture of NK on there. Huma Abadeen had access to her device (someone who was born in the USA, but raised in Saudi Arabia) as evidenced by signatures on some emails "from" Hillary. And even if there wasn't that, they should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute).

For all the worry about foreign powers influencing the USA, it's undeniable that she and Colin Powell schemed in such a way that jeopardized OPSEC. That will remain an issue as long as people can get away with it.

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Monday January 02, 2017 @11:58AM (#13302341)
> They should have the ability to prosecute her for all of the false statements made during the investigation (which would be under a completely different statute).

What false statements did she make under oath during the investigation? Comey specifically said that they have no evidence that she lied to the FBI. http://www.politico.com/blogs/james-comey-testimony/2016/07/...

> There was a TS picture of NK on there. Huma Abadeen [sic] had access to her device (someone who was born in the USA, but raised in Saudi Arabia) as evidenced by signatures on some emails "from" Hillary.

Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia? She is a US citizen who obtained security clearance in 2009, during which the FBI would have thoroughly checked her background. Before you go even further off the reservation, she doesn't have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood either. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/...

Let's look at the Kim case because the indictment so clearly draws out the difference with the Clinton case. From the indictment:

"The indictment charges that Kim had a reason to believe that this information could be used to the injury of the United States and to the advantage of a foreign nation and that Kim knowingly and willfully communicated, delivered or transmitted that information to a reporter for a national news organization, who was not entitled to receive that information."

It continues:

"Count Two of the indictment charges that on or about September 24, 2009, Kim denied to agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation that he had had any contact with a named reporter for a national news organization since meeting the reporter in or about March 2009. The indictment alleges that Kim actually had repeated contact with the reporter in the months following the March 2009 meeting. The indictment charges that Kim knowingly and willfully made a materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statement and representation to the FBI in violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)."

Kim knew that giving the national security information to a reporter would get that information seen by a foreign nation to its benefit (violation of the Espionage Act). Then he lied about it to the FBI (violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)). Clinton did neither.

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Natsu on Tuesday January 03, 2017 @12:34AM (#13306982)
Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC1Mc6-RDyQ

> Why mention that she was raised in Saudi Arabia?

Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently. I haven't claimed anything regarding the Muslim Brotherhood, nor was I aware it had been claimed regarding her.

> Kim knew that giving the national security information to a reporter would get that information seen by a foreign nation to its benefit (violation of the Espionage Act). Then he lied about it to the FBI (violation of I8 U.S.C. § IOOI(a)(2)). Clinton did neither.

That North Korean photo we're talking about was discussed with one of her press guys and none of these people who accessed this were cleared for TS information other than Hillary herself. Huma was found emailing Wiener from Hillary's device in at least one case (probably how his laptop got roped into that).

Incidentally, here's the warrant for Wiener's laptop (which mentions all the TS info on this uncleared server, among other things): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1NKixAl7kHoVmp5MkFfTEgwc2s...

And here's the email where they discuss the NK photo they were worried about: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10587

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Tuesday January 03, 2017 @11:38AM (#13310349)
> Gowdy discusses quite a few such statements with Comey here:

Again, none of those statements were made to the investigators or under oath.

> Because it shows how easily the information could escape the US to other countries, even inadvertently.

Again, that is the FBI's job to determine when doing the security clearance background check.

> That North Korean photo we're talking about was discussed with one of her press guys and none of these people who accessed this were cleared for TS information other than Hillary herself.

What North Korean photo are we talking about? This is the first time you've mentioned it. I suspect you are talking about http://www.wptv.com/news/political/clinton-email-on-north-ko..., which was neither Top Secret nor sent to a news reporter. If it wasn't sent to a news reporter, why do you think this email is anything at all like Kim's case?

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Natsu on Wednesday January 04, 2017 @12:02AM (#13315811)
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/10587

"The rumor was not that ODNI had completed the review and determined only one was not TS and the other was, but rather that they had only reached a definitive conclusion on the one (we think the North Korea email that supposedly relied on satellite imagery) and were still deciding on the other."

Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Monday January 09, 2017 @12:49PM (#13358129)
That's the one I suspected. Did you read the rest of my post about why that email does not make Clinton's case anything like Kim's?
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Toe-Rag on Sunday January 01, 2017 @08:52PM (#13298566)
Intent to harm the United States (or another nation) was not the intent Comey was looking for. It was intent to share national security information with people not authorized to receive it.
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Monday January 02, 2017 @01:15AM (#13299416)
And what law would that be a violation of? The only law requiring intent that was under investigation was the Espionage Act, and I have given you the text that describes what intent is required.
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by Toe-Rag on Tuesday January 03, 2017 @02:37AM (#13307460)
The statute - 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f) - says nothing about intent. Comey read it in as a requirement for launching a prosecution. The intent he thought was required was as I described, not intent to harm the United States.
Re:US Govt Data Shows Russia Used Outdated Ukrainian PHP Mal... by lern_too_spel on Tuesday January 03, 2017 @11:25AM (#13310218)
> The intent he thought was required was as I described

Again, cite the law. It doesn't exist.

> The statute - 18 U.S.C. Section 793(f) - says nothing about intent.

Again, that section was anulled by case law, in particular Gorin v. United States, which establishes the bright line of scienter for applying this law. That is why Comey said that no prosecutor would bring this charge.