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Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @08:17AM (#13270260)
A warrant is not the same as a subpoena. But look, "the innocent have nothing to hide" is an insidious and wrong idea. If people and corporations don't assert their rights against the will of the state, they erode the foundation of our shared liberties.
Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by zubspace on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @08:37AM (#13270342)
I'm not a lawyer, so excuse me if I'm asking trivial things:

To obtain a search warrant or arrest warrant, the law enforcement officer must demonstrate probable cause that a search or seizure is justified. An authority, usually a magistrate, will consider the totality of circumstances and determine whether to issue the warrant. [1]

I agree to your statement, if there is no search warrant. But in this case an authority already decided that the search is justified. What use are search warrants then if they can all be refused?

I understand, that even a magistrate or whatever can make errors. But if this happens a lot, the consequence will be, that search warrants are issued without second thought and the person/company affected by the search should always deny it first.

I'm all for privacy and defending individual rights, but cases like this make a farce out of court orders and the whole jurisdictional process.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fourth_amendment

Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by phil21 on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @09:50AM (#13270772)
> But if this happens a lot, the consequence will be, that search warrants are issued without second thought and the person/company affected by the search should always deny it first.

I think you'll find the vast majority of search warrants aren't even read by the judge signing them. When I owned a (hosting) company it was blatantly obvious reading them, and we had a policy of challenging them when possible.

The whole search warrant/subpoena process is a joke. There is essentially no oversight on law enforcement whatsoever here and the whole trope of "but a judge reviewed it!" is a complete and utter outright lie in many cases.

Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by FroshKiller on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @08:55AM (#13270444)
I'm not a lawyer, either. But I don't think it's the case that any warrant can just be refused, more that the warrant itself can be challenged based on a lot of factors, like the burden placed on a company to deliver some evidence.
Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by maxerickson on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @09:07AM (#13270504)
Do you mean farce out of the judicial process?

It seems fairly likely that jurisdiction is what Amazon ended up challenging.

Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by forgetsusername on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @08:26AM (#13270303)
>But look, "the innocent have nothing to hide" is an insidious and wrong idea

Very much agree, because there's a difference between being "innocent" and actually innocent. Only the former matters, it's subjective (jury/judge) and unknown to everyone but you, ex ante.

Sometimes the police are more invested in finding a criminal rather than the criminal.

Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by zubspace on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @08:44AM (#13270371)
Usually a warrant will only last a short time and the issuer must name a specific thing they are looking for. In this case it's clear that they only need to provide the data for a specific person.

I also believe that Amazon could provide that data alone. So what makes them refuse?

Re:Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s E... by jschwartzi on Wednesday December 28, 2016 @10:45AM (#13271182)
Because if they don't, I'll tell all my friends that Alexa is being used to monitor their speech for law enforcement, and to not say anything incriminating around one.