Security Risks of TSA PreCheck

Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by TallGuyShort on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:06AM (#13263501)

I've been very critical of the TSA, but if (since) that's the threat model, that actually highlights the benefit of security theater. As Schneier points out, there are essentially no terrorists. It's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, and it's arguably better to just let the needle go through than to screw up all the hay.

But if the terrorists are mainly just causing fear instead of harm, doesn't it make sense to counter it by making people feel safer instead of actually making them safer, especially if you practically can't do the latter?

Food for thought...

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by LukaAl on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:23AM (#13263618)

I thought about that. But if finding a terrorist is like trying to find a needle in the haystack, Schneier suggestion (as well as any other expert in security will tell you), the best solution is truly random search. If it is truly random, the terrorists have no way to predict if they will be checked and if it is frequent enough, it will be sufficient to change their behavior.

As for the point of sense of safety vs. real safety (impossible) is a well taken one. But this false safety could be dispensed with much lower costs for the citizens (both in terms of money and inconvenience).

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by alasdair_ on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:18PM (#13265391)

>If it is truly random, the terrorists have no way to predict if they will be checked and if it is frequent enough, it will be sufficient to change their behavior.

If we are talking about suicide bombings, I don't see how this changes anything. If they don't get through, they will just blow themselves up as soon as they get randomly selected.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by moises_silva on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:40PM (#13267817)

Agreed. To reinforce the comment I just made above to the parent. Someone willing to blow him/her self up will take any odds pretty much, and then kill whoever he can in the line once he/she is selected. I guess some kind of protocol can isolate individuals from the rest while the decision of being selected or not is made? that could just slow things down anyways though, so not sure how would something like that would look like.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by ethbro on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:40AM (#13263706)

> random search

Or in other words, ignore concerns about profiling and implement an Israeli style security operation.

I think it has a lot to be said for it. Profiling + politeness + a firm boundary on mandate (e.g. no drug convictions by airport security) doesn't seem that bad. Especially compared to what amounts to the same thing except with a vast security army of more poorly trained agents.

Ethnically profiling selection without ethnically profiling assumption isn't a nuance I'd trust the average TSA agent to perform well.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by umanwizard on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:45AM (#13263753)

I think by "truly random" he means uniformly random, i.e. the exact opposite of profiling.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by thescriptkiddie on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:04AM (#13263879)

Racial profiling is the opposite of a random search.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by dogma1138 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @12:15PM (#13264372)

Well the Israelis profile single white european women in their 20's and 30's as one of the highest risk threat actors because historically they are been the ones that knowingly or unknowingly been used to smuggle munitions or explosives pass security.

Being brown skinned an arab or a muslim isn't what would put you on top of their threat ranking.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by ethbro on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:48AM (#13264170)

If we want to be technical, it's a weighted random search based on historical observations.

It would be the exact opposite if 100% of the ethnically profiled individuals were terrorists.

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by moises_silva on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:37PM (#13267804)

I'm curious on your reasoning here. What makes you think truly random search will be sufficient to change their behaviour? frequent enough means not always, hence, they can simply send multiple parties and then odds might be good enough that not all of them will be caught by the random search (again, depends on the frequency of search you left undetermined). What kind of odds do you think will stop a person willing to blow him/herself up?

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Re:Security Risks of TSA PreCheck by knz on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:26AM (#13263633)

To be fair to the TSA, they have requested that they are armed.

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