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Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by gaius on Monday December 26, 2016 @07:26AM (#13258004)
The Old Republic seems to be totally cool with the idea of slavery, Anakin's mother as you say, droids seem to be self-aware with personalities etc but are mere property, and so on. The Jedi were intent on preserving the status quo and not rocking the boat. Overthrowing it was absolutely the right thing to do.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by toxican on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:29AM (#13258341)
Tatooine is beyond the Republic's sphere of influence. Droids only develope personalities after going a long period of time without a memory wipe (a quirk of their programming?) R2, 3PO, Chopper, and K-2 are the only canonical droids we see with personalities.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by umbrai_nation on Monday December 26, 2016 @10:08AM (#13258458)
Is a memory wipe any better than slavery? In a world with the technology to wipe human minds, you could say the same about us.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by toxican on Monday December 26, 2016 @12:25PM (#13258954)
The way the phenomenon of them developing personalities is presented, I would say yes it's better than slavery. Memory wipes are a part of routine maintenance (and security protocol in case of government or military use), and prolonged skipping of that maintenance can result in a personality beyond the one programmed into the droid. Their personalities are little more than a glitch in an old system that needs a wipe.

Now if the actual intention of the wipes is to keep your droid in check and keep it subservient, yes that's absolutely slavery. But I've never seen it presented that way.

These kinds of things are difficult to discuss because they're not explored in the way they are in harder scifi like Star Trek. With Star Wars you're expected to take everything at face value and technology is hardly ever explained in-canon.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by jdfellow on Monday December 26, 2016 @11:27AM (#13258719)
Hence the 4-year lifespan in Blade Runner.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by sqeaky on Monday December 26, 2016 @05:03PM (#13260018)
Because Killing your slaves somehow justifies slavery?
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by thousandautumns on Monday December 26, 2016 @10:42PM (#13261149)
Depends on if you view killing them before they develop into what is considered a being with rights I guess. It's honestly the exact same debate as abortion. I agree with you, for what it's worth.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by naasking on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:10AM (#13263520)
It's not the same as abortion at all. A droid can be given or sold to someone else who wants to let it grow into a sentient being. Fetal or placenta transplants simply doesn't exist. These two scenarios are simply not the same.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by sirclueless on Monday December 26, 2016 @07:10PM (#13260467)
At the risk of introducing a contentious topic into polite discussion: there's an obvious parallel with abortion. It's seen as pragmatic, and maybe even kind, to terminate an entity's existence before it can achieve the intelligence and sentience that grant it moral rights.

If you're OK owning and operating a robotic arm, and not OK with owning and operating a sentient AI, then what to do with robotic arms that develop sentience over time?

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by Asooka on Monday December 26, 2016 @01:45PM (#13259263)
HK-47 will always be canon in my heart. Even if he'd prefer us all dead.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by cthalupa on Monday December 26, 2016 @07:26PM (#13260519)
IG-88? He had enough personality to go rogue and become a bounty hunter, and is canonical.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by toxican on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @01:17PM (#13264806)
Oh true, and presumably 4-LOM as well.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by gonzo41 on Monday December 26, 2016 @07:45AM (#13258053)
It is the difference between RIGHT and WRONG vs right and wrong.

Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them)

if you think of the self aware droids as cattle then its kind of a choie about what you like more. Cows are really nice animals in taste and temperament. Its about where you draw the line, and I guess in a way the jedi were being all realpolitik with how they deal with the galaxy.

In earth scale I would say they best examples is States Rights vs Human Rights. At what point do we get involved with a country for their human rights abuses? I'm Australian and I would happily see a few of my politicians dragged off to the Hague to be hung for their treatment of refugees. so what do we do with, American and its spying and DPRK, the philipines, burma, iran etc etc.

The interesting thing about the Star wars films is that the build up of arms by forces in the galaxy is allowed. I know in other series of sci fi (DUNE) there was a repression of technology past a point, if only to add some normal level to the battle field. If you start to develop capability eventually the end result is the use of it, Im supprised the empire could get away with the build up in secret.

Anyway. Rouge one was a lot like the thin red line. so tip of the hat to the star wars people for making a wholly depressing and sad war film.

-Also something i noticed, the UI and control systems engeneers in the empire a crap. its like a jobs for the boys kind of operation where everyone gets to do something. why is the antenna sighting control seperate from the transmission control. they are so tightly related. and also. The antenna is for space communications, visual sight of the dish isn't really needed as your not pointing at anything.

Other than that everything was super realistic with the fish people and faster that light travel etc. :P

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by Anderkent on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:00AM (#13258082)
The manual controls for the library were the funniest thing ever. Oh yeah, the software can highlight the thing you want with a light. But moving a servo there is too hard, here, use these handles.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by MereInterest on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:35AM (#13258166)
I imagined it as intentionally needing manual control, so that a computer security breach would not result in leaking sensitive documents. Somebody who gains remote access could highlight the document that they want to steal, but could not upload it to a remote server, without the help of a person nearby.

Granted, the same effect could be achieved by having the storage system deposit the hard drive in a box, to be picked up by hand, but I can't come up with any explanation about that.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by TuringTest on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:17AM (#13258292)
I was shocked that the Empire's reaction to having their central secret military archive compromised was (spoiler ahead) to blow the whole base from space; more so when it is hinted that this was their only copy.

Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though, as well as knowing that it had undergone some "preliminary tests" before Episode IV.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by MereInterest on Monday December 26, 2016 @10:09AM (#13258462)
I saw it less as a rational move on the part of the Empire, and more as a rational move on the part of Tarkin. With the Death Star functional, Krennic would be gaining more status. Tarkin wanted to take as much credit as possible, as seen earlier in the film. Given an excuse to remove a political rival with the excuse of securing the plans to prevent any additional transmissions, he took it.

Also, I had recently read this fanfiction [1] about a project manager working on the second Death Star, complaining about how much of the institutional knowledge from the first Death Star had been lost, making the second Death Star be quite rushed. The loss of the original plans made the fanfiction fit in even better.

[1] https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11685932/1/Instruments-of-Destr...

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by Spooky23 on Monday December 26, 2016 @07:31PM (#13260538)
The whole affair was a real shitshow. Blowing everything and everyone up is good bureaucratic response when your boss has a habit of strangling people.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by Anderkent on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:26AM (#13258327)
>Watching the Death Star operating at low power was cool though

Oh yeah the slomo nuke that's literally outran by the characters. ಠ_ಠ

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by MereInterest on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:57AM (#13258421)
Given that they were a large distance away from the site of the explosion, it isn't unreasonable. From orbit, we see that the shockwave has covered a large proportion of Jedha's circumference, easily visible from space, at the time of the jump to hyperspace. Estimating the diameter at 5% of the planet's circumference, the shockwave traveled about 600 miles, which would take about 45 minutes for the shockwave to reach, assuming similar size and atmospheric density as Earth (reasonable, since humans can comfortably live there).

Clearly, the stronghold is not 600 miles from the city, as the shockwave was traveling faster than the rockwave, but it gives a good sense of timing. Note that the characters were not able to outrun the rockwave without the jump to hyperspace.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by Anderkent on Monday December 26, 2016 @10:05AM (#13258447)
It looked to me like they're literally running out of the building as the shockwave was travelling through it, and then running to the ship and getting there before it gets to them. It didn't look like they were far from the site at all. Without seeing the scene again I guess it's hard to check.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by MereInterest on Monday December 26, 2016 @10:40AM (#13258566)
Good point. I've only seen it once so far, so I will keep an eye out for it the next time. My interpretation was that the initial shockwave had hit the building, and was causing all the structural damage that we saw as they were leaving the building. The shockwave passed, at which point they were trying to get to the ship and leave before the larger danger of "the horizon is missing" reached them.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by talmand on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:15AM (#13263946)
My feelings on it were that the building was shaking due to seismic activity at a low level on the outskirts of the rock wave. The sheer size of the rock wave might make it seem closer than it was. The problem is that we have little indication how far away the base was from the initial blast point. My thought it was quite a distance away since they had X-Wings parked out front in the open.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by VLM on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:26AM (#13258330)
Logging and access control. Even today some "special collections" are not stored and provided access as easily as technologically possible in order to intentionally restrict access. The humans in the certified birth certificate process could be replaced by a very small shell script technologically, but legally their slowing things down paradoxically provide a useful service by getting in the way.

If I were retcon-ing the data silo design they're worried about a terror attack methodically destroying trillions of dollars of stored design data, or being too easy and fast to use, resulting in the wrong people putting together the wrong collection of ideas and figuring out the overall plan. You can do a lot of interesting compartmentalized grunt work engineering. So here's the static and dynamic loads gimmie a minimal mass truss design for those loads with a factor of safety of 9 but you don't have to be told thats the death star's laser cannon support thingy and it would be bad if enough people put 2 and 2 together.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by ben0x539 on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:46AM (#13258196)
Star Wars gotta have 70s sci-fi technology, it can't keep pace with advances in sci-fi!
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by icebraining on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:53AM (#13258222)
Relativistic morality? (Its ok to kill this race because we are better than them)

Nitpick, but this isn't what relativistic morality means; it means that there's no One True morality. Racial supremacism doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by gonzo41 on Monday December 26, 2016 @09:03AM (#13258246)
you're correct. I was just moving quickly on a tangent and genocides based on religion, race etc came quickest to my mind as an example. But its a big galaxy and there are lots of normal.
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by UncleSlacky on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:41AM (#13258176)
Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by jankotek on Monday December 26, 2016 @08:07AM (#13258097)
I did not comment on some abstract fight, but on idea of leaving close relative alone in harsh conditions. Just send some money, buy her freedom, and do your jedi stuff after that.

It is like fighting for social justice, while your children are starving.

Re:Rogue One – An Engineering Ethics Story by zhemao on Monday December 26, 2016 @05:38PM (#13260148)
If this is about Anakin's personal morality, he was a kid when he left. And by joining the Jedi order, he was supposed to shed his familial attachments. And then in Episode II, he violated those principles to rush to her side when he sensed she was in mortal danger.