News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by contravariant on Thursday December 22, 2016 @05:26PM (#13240944)
Please don't conflate sets with algebras. Strictly speaking the tuple (R^2, +, ·) (where · is multiplication by a scalar) is a linear algebra over R, R^2 is just a set.

Now I know mathematicians often refer to spaces by their underlying set, but the notation G^2 doesn't really make sense (for starters R^2 = R x R, what is G?). Calling it the Geometric Algebra over R^2 would be fine. You can even refer to it as just R^2, as long it's clear that you're using the geometric product (and what metric you're using).

Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by catnaroek on Thursday December 22, 2016 @07:46PM (#13241874)
Many people denote by R the field of reals, not just its underlying set. IMO this is a very sensible thing to do, for the following reasons:

(0) When you construct the reals, you don't construct just a set - you construct a more elaborate structure into which the rationals, equipped with their ordered field structure, can be embedded in a structure-preserving way.

(1) When you work with the reals, you again don't just use the underlying set. If you only need the underlying set, why couldn't you just take the power set of the naturals? It's much simpler to construct, and qua set (that is, taking only cardinalities into consideration), it's just as good.

And, of course, every field can be regarded as a vector space over itself in an obvious way. So the notation R^2 is completely justified.

OTOH, I completely agree with your complaint about the notation G^2.

Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by yequalsx on Thursday December 22, 2016 @06:40PM (#13241504)
G is a 4th dimensional vector space over R so it's underlying set is not R^2. The geometric product of two vectors is not an element of R^2 - it's a real number + a bivector. We are really working in the exterior algebra.
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by stablemap on Thursday December 22, 2016 @06:54PM (#13241587)
In the first paragraph, do you mean vector space over R? I wouldn't say "algebra" unless I were specifying a way to multiply two vectors.

I agree that you've found two notational abuses but I think they're very common; as an example of the second, the sphere S² is not the same as the torus S¹xS¹.

Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by ajamesm on Thursday December 22, 2016 @06:38PM (#13241486)
You're right, it's not really the product of some set "G" with itself but hooooo boy a programming/hacker forum is probably the wrong place to be defending the syntax of mathematical notation
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by catnaroek on Thursday December 22, 2016 @07:30PM (#13241792)
If anything, programmers should (and often do!) complain that mathematical notation and terminology isn't defined rigorously enough, and that the main justification for many design decisions is “hysterical raisins”. By comparison, even the wackiest programming languages are the parangon of consistency - after all, they have to be interpreted by machines that can only follow rules.
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by ajamesm on Thursday December 22, 2016 @07:44PM (#13241860)
I'm reading a disagreement in your phrasing, but I think we're saying the same thing: Math notation is the wild west, dressed in the veneer of consistency but indignant at any untoward implication.

Programming languages are praised by their elegance and economy, even when they're wacky. Any theory (programmatic, mathematical, scientific) benefits from those qualities, because theories like to be axiomatic and terse. But any primer or intro or lesson is made MUCH better through repetition and redundancy. Computers don't need the rule of three, people do, and there's an mismatch.

Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by catnaroek on Thursday December 22, 2016 @07:48PM (#13241877)
Yes, there's a disagreement. contravariant's complaint about the notation G^2 is completely justified.
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by ajamesm on Thursday December 22, 2016 @08:52PM (#13242163)
I would object too, but I don't see how that could be confusing moreso than any whiteboard "you get what I mean" pseudocode.

The reader's walking in with knowledge of the product-based construction of N-dimensional space, and we readily admit that "R^2" is (a set literally, but) taken to mean the space equipped with whatever operations appropriate for whatever algebra.

I'm being kinda sophist on this. "G^2" isn't meaningful. I agree. But given the convention of naming a set with the implication of whatever topology/metric/norm, the notation is already under harsh torture, right..?

Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by catnaroek on Friday December 23, 2016 @01:54AM (#13243332)
In my reply to contravariant, I explain why I don't think R^2 constitutes abuse of notation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13241874 .
Re:An Introduction to Geometric Algebra by GFK_of_xmaspast on Thursday December 22, 2016 @06:05PM (#13241221)
> but the notation G^2 doesn't really make sense (for starters R^2 = R x R, what is G?)

A superscript can refer to other things besides exponentiation, and using "R^2" to refer to the vector space is a perfectly valid thing to do.