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Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by jordhy on Sunday December 18, 2016 @01:38AM (#13204654)
Technical Reasons: Because Flash is more than an animation platform. Entire applications have been developed in ActionScript (the platform's main language), significant piping was deployed (mainly in the early 2000s) in Adobe/Macromedia-based solutions where Flash played a key role as a connector/target/control interface.

In other words, for many important websites, Flash was the JavaScript of today (far reaching, with critical appearances in both the back and front-end).

Business Reasons: Adobe has had a rough decade. The Macromedia acquisition was a red pill (IMHO) for many at the company. The company has been dramatically slow in adapting to a new Web. Several major projects have failed or under-performed. All and all, Adobe has bigger fish to fry than to procure their developer base of a free/low-cost migration solution.

Other Reasons: 1)The nature of proprietary software - a lot has been written about this so feel free to look it up on the Web but basically its hard to just discontinue software without facing several non-trivial legal challenges. 2) The Steve Jobs Effect - or the curse of having a major figure accelerate the demise of a product that should have evolved into an open standard. 3) The Adobe Coldfusion Effect - Macromedia/Adobe has a product called ColdFusion Server that used Flash technology A LOT to differentiate itself, however the transition strategy adopted by Adobe didn't immediately discontinue Flash support for ColdFusion generated reports (for example) and such a direction made developers less likely to invest in a quicker migration to HTML5.

I feel your pain and, at this point, would also like to see Adobe pull the plug once and for all. But we live in a complicated world, for better or worse.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by aub3bhat on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:04AM (#13204706)
Adobe has had a rough decade?

Really, I always assumed that Adobe successfully mitigated all the revenue risk by selling recurring Creative Studio/Cloud licenses, and that Flash was not a big chunk of revenue anymore. I remember Steve Jobs planning to kill Adobe or at least news blog reporting such intentions.[0]

Adobe stock has done pretty well over last half a decade even when compared with Google.[1]

[0] http://www.businessinsider.com/the-real-reason-steve-jobs-wa...

[1] https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AADBE%2CGOOGL&ei=2j...

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by bluebknight on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:45AM (#13204800)
What I found ironic was, I had to enable flash player to see your Google finance link. I guess Flash is still alive in many places.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by cm2187 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @03:49AM (#13204962)
I don't have the feeling that google finance is live and kicking. I think it's one of those product that will disappear soon. There are lots of broken feeds like:

http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AGLDI&ei=Tk1WWKnmH...

I reported some but they did nothing about it.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by JumpCrisscross on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:29AM (#13205045)
> google finance is live and kicking

I work in finance. It's a last resort. It should be front page, but it was ignored for too many years. I think I see it once or twice a year, now.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by cm2187 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:32AM (#13205051)
I actually went to google finance where I could get live price feed when yahoo and my bloomberg terminal had 15min delays. Now even yahoo has live feeds too.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by inuhj on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:37PM (#13209129)
Yahoo finance came first and has always been better.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by Spooky23 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:34AM (#13205913)
Whomever was scratching a personal itch with Google Finance at Google is probably rich enough to have people worry about such things now.

I end up using my broker for charting, as most of the free ones suck.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by csomar on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:06AM (#13205337)
Two things here:

1. It's because Google finance is old and probably forgotten. Really answers the OP question why it's not a good idea to kill flash right now.

2. Have been trading for a while and can tell that the performance of that chart beat the hell out of any JavaScript charting tool out there. It's interesting that JS/HTML 5 is all the hype now but it's still lagging behind a 10 year old technology.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by jayflux on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:17AM (#13205369)
Yeah, i do find it odd that Google finance (which is used quite a bit i believe) hasn't had any life breathed into it. I'm sure its had the same design for the last decade now
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by brianwawok on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:14AM (#13205849)
Doubt it makes enough money to move the needle.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by Nanite on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:32AM (#13205564)
While they seemed to have abandoned Google Finance and left it in flash limbo, they do seem to be using HTML5 for stock charting whey you query google for: "company name" quote
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by vacri on Sunday December 18, 2016 @03:11AM (#13204862)
The last version before subscriptions came in, it was cheaper to fly return Australia -> US and purchase a copy of Photoshop, than it was to just purchase one locally here in Aus.

Adobe can stand to have a rougher time of it, IMO...

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by semi-extrinsic on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:54AM (#13205119)
In other words, someone could've made a killing selling US Photoshop on ebay?
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by chris_wot on Sunday December 18, 2016 @05:48AM (#13205281)
Probably, and then they would have had their account pulled and a cease and desist letter sent.

This is why Australians have fought hard against geoblocking, and on similar lines why SciHub is around.

I have zero sympathy for Adobe.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by jlarocco on Sunday December 18, 2016 @02:08AM (#13204714)
> Adobe has had a rough decade.

Not true at all - their share price has more than tripled in the last decade [0]. Web development was never a big part of Adobe's business. They were trying, because it's similar to their other product areas, but they never got a big foothold, except Flash.

They still make a ton of popular software (Photoshop/Lightroom, Premiere, Acrobat, Illustator, After Effects, ...), and most of it is selling better than ever.

[0] https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=adbe

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by jordhy on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:49PM (#13209178)
Maybe we shouln't equate the stock price of a company with that very company. But I append some links so further my POV:

Flash In The Pan: Historical Lessons Of Adobe's Macromedia Acquisition https://adexchanger.com/data-driven-thinking/flash-in-the-pa...

Adobe accused of software monopoly (not by Apple) http://www.techworld.com/news/apps/adobe-accused-of-software...

The Real Story Behind Adobe’s Failed Mobile Strategy http://www.businessinsider.com/the-underlying-story-behind-a...

Adobe recovering from massive Creative Cloud failure (one of several) https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/16/adobe-recovering-from-ma...

The Agonizingly Slow Decline Of Adobe Flash Player https://www.fastcompany.com/3049920/tech-forecast/the-agoniz...

And, finally, some commentary on the nature of Adobe's stock rise: http://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2014/02/28/why-is-ado...

Adobe Systems Inc. May Be Wildly Overvalued http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/29/adobe-syste...

Adobe Is Extremely Overvalued http://seekingalpha.com/article/2675425-adobe-is-extremely-o...

Adobe: Overvalued Despite Improving Profitability http://seekingalpha.com/article/3989440-adobe-overvalued-des...

But to be clearer, let's rephrase and say that "Adobe the company has had a rough decade".

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by rkachowski on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:14AM (#13205517)
> The Macromedia acquisition was a red pill (IMHO) for many at the company

slightly OT: what does "red pill" mean here in this context? A wake up call? Adobe employees chose to enter the real world?

I'm thinking a matrix reference but I find it hard to discern the sentiment behind it.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by JohnJamesRambo on Sunday December 18, 2016 @11:35AM (#13206354)
"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are popular culture symbols representing the choice between embracing the sometimes painful truth of reality (red pill) and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill). The terms, popularized in science fiction culture, are derived from the 1999 film The Matrix."
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by dispose13432 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @01:55AM (#13204683)
>or the curse of having a major figure accelerate the demise of a product that should have evolved into an open standard.

Well, they always had the option. It's not like they were working on open-sourcing it. It's an Open standard like Windows API EXEs are, you get half-support from Wine, but no guarantees.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by nkkollaw on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:15AM (#13205011)
I don't get it, aren't there free (and open source) Flash players besides Adobe's?

Google Chrome doesn't use Adobe's Flash player, for instance, but a player called PepperFlash.

Adobe could very well discontinue developing their player, and just tell people to use an open source version. They could make it a marketing stunt by open sourcing their player for user freedom or some stuff like that.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by robinduckett on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:40AM (#13205075)
PepperFlash is made by Adobe, and is closed source, it's called "PepperFlash" because it uses a different set of APIs, "PPAPI" vs "NPAPI". It's available to download from their "other versions" download page, so I'm wondering what your point is?
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by future1979 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:01AM (#13205325)
Pepper and Nacl seem to have an uncertain. I read that Google unstaffed some teams. Anyone familiar with what is going on?
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by nkkollaw on Sunday December 18, 2016 @06:04AM (#13205332)
Ah, got it.

My bad, I thought it was a completely different implementation.

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by icebraining on Sunday December 18, 2016 @05:02AM (#13205144)
There are only two open source players AFAIK; Shumway, which has been discontinued, and GNU Gnash, which despite the heroic efforts still doesn't support all features.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by cpeterso on Sunday December 18, 2016 @03:36PM (#13207483)
There is also Lightspark:

https://lightspark.github.io/

Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by jhasse on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:35AM (#13205060)
I think PepperFlash is a fork of Adobe's Flash, just with a different interface for the browser.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by chmaynard on Sunday December 18, 2016 @04:05AM (#13204991)
Lots of interesting and useful comments in this thread. It looks to me like Flash will remain a nightmare for Adobe until the company gives in and releases their source code to the public. Once that happens, their developers can get involved in supporting it and keeping it secure.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by shostack on Sunday December 18, 2016 @09:31AM (#13205896)
And I wonder how much revenue they get off the McAfee installs they try to get people to download from the Flash update page...
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by user5994461 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:48AM (#13205620)
There is at least one MMORPG done in flash, that's just to say how much can be done in flash.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by grenoire on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:51AM (#13205635)
There are MMORPGs created in Visual Basic. I can't say that it's a great language or platform metric, hah.
Re:Ask HN: Why doesn't Adobe just kill the Flash Player? by user5994461 on Sunday December 18, 2016 @07:55AM (#13205645)
Just because a tool is not great doesn't mean you can't enjoy the awesome things done with it.