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Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by dragonwriter on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @05:46PM (#13180415)
> Doesn't this just mean that IQ Scores don't measure what they're supposed to?

No, it does not mean that IQ scores don't measure general intelligence.

It does mean that things some people believe about general intelligence may need to be reevaluated.

> But if you can increase this with schooling, isn't it just how smart you are right now?

That intelligence (and particularly IQ) can change over time, and that there were environmental contributors to that change has been well-know for some time.

That education in adolescence is a relevant factor is perhaps new, and certainly challenges the treatment of education and intelligence as orthogonal factors that contribute to outcomes.

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by jt2190 on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @05:59PM (#13180530)
For those of us with only a layman's understanding of the term "general intelligence", would you mind posting a definition?
Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by JamesBarney on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @07:17PM (#13181085)
The best way to understand general intelligence is to understand why general intelligence is around and what phenomenon is explains.

It started long ago when everyone thought you could be good at Math, or good at History, or good at Science, and sometimes good at all 3.

One day Suzy(named changed and story overly simplified for explanatory purposes), a very smart math teacher, was promoted to principal. So she finally had the chance to look at students grades from every class. And she found something curious. Her students that succeeded in her Math class also succeeded at Science. And kids that did well at History, scored highly in English. So Suzy decided to call these newly discovered traits "Verbal Ability" and "Quantitative Ability" respectively.

But Suzy didn't stop there, her investigations found that Verbal and Quantitative were correlated with each other. So she invented a third trait which was the combination of Verbal and Quantitative ability and she called that g for General Intelligence. Of course Suzy wanted to measure this g with a test so she could predict(though by no means perfectly) a student's Math, Science, English, and History grades from just one score. She settled on IQ as the measure of this test, and thus IQ was born.

Basically when we give someone a whole bunch of different tests we find that if someone does well on one, they will probably do well on others. For instance if we know someone is really good at theoretical physics we know they'll be good at working memory, and solving silly matrix puzzles. But if we know someone is really good at poetry we don't know as much about how good their working memory is, or how good they are at solving silly matrix puzzles.

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by kristopolous on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @10:18PM (#13182113)
I strongly believe someone's conformity to obedience, authoritarianism and conventionalism plays a substantial factor in their performance.

I've dealt with many people with advanced degrees from top tier schools who seem to be completely unable to grasp subversive or non dominant thought patterns.

For years I was stunned, thinking "how on earth could they have such impressive academic credentials and be struggling like this."

The entire institution continually fosters and rewards a set of specific things with limited application.

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by gohrt on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @11:32PM (#13182428)
Rebelliousness, while may be a valuable skill, is different from intelligence.
Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by kristopolous on Thursday December 15, 2016 @12:56AM (#13182756)
Presume there's a multiple choice with two decent answers. A "rebellious" person would see the merit in both and essentially coin toss. A conformist would mimic what the professor sees and pick his right one.

The rebellious person did a deeper, objective, thoughtful analysis but did worse than the obedient mimic.

Often it's a D student who knows the material the best, has the most passion for the subject, is the smartest in the class, and puts the most work in. I saw it all the time while I was TAing.

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by internaut on Thursday December 15, 2016 @04:57AM (#13183536)
> A "rebellious" person would see the merit in both and essentially coin toss.

Perhaps a smart person is a rebel roleplaying as a conformist. In a game theoretic sense you get the most advantage without the penalty. It is one explanation I suspected but haven't seen for why contradictory traits might be expressed by somebody in or close to power.

> A conformist would mimic what the professor sees and pick his right one.

Less Wrong calls this 'Guessing the teacher's password'.

It's the art of mimicry. That there is no penalty for this in the education system is an indictment.

> Often it's a D student who knows the material the best

Even most A students will agree with you. There is an argument made by Alfie Kohn that grades should be abolished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfRALeA3mdU

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by 234dd57d2c8db on Thursday December 15, 2016 @09:53AM (#13184923)
Sorry but I completely disagree. The D students I knew were dumb as rocks. I got As through my engineering degree with a few Bs in a few of the classes I was less interested in and I have to say, it's completely ridiculous to suggest the D students knew more than I did.

You could either solve the problems using techniques taught or you couldn't. Grades were a direct measurement of this ability. Maybe grades don't matter in Psychology or Sociology class, but I don't want to rely on an electrical system designed by the D students in my classes. It would probably kill me.

Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by kristopolous on Thursday December 15, 2016 @04:25PM (#13188553)
The claim wasn't about all D students or that there was an inverse correlation. There's certainly slackers with Ds...
Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by danharaj on Wednesday December 14, 2016 @11:51PM (#13182523)
Unorthodox thinking is a cognitive ability. what kind is it if not intelligence?
Re:Schooling in adolescence raises IQ scores (2011) [pdf] by ekm2 on Thursday December 15, 2016 @05:49AM (#13183723)
Creativity.