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Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by jrockway on Saturday May 01, 2010 @10:46PM (#1311816)
There's a reason why C compilers aren't implemented as editor macros that convert what you type into assembly, as you type it. It's because a high-level programmer never wants to work at that low level; he should never see the lower level. Ideally, he shouldn't even know that the lower level exists. (When was the last time you debugged your CPU microcode?)

If something is so cumbersome that it needs to be abstracted away, do it right. It's really fun to press a few keys and watch a bunch of code show up, but it's even more fun to not watch it show up. Because then you have something that's not a write-once operation.

Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by veeti on Sunday May 02, 2010 @07:36AM (#1312352)
I'm not sure I understand your point: Zen Coding just makes it easier to write HTML (like autocompletion in an IDE) instead of translating it into some other language (like your Assembly example).
Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by vcrash on Sunday May 02, 2010 @12:49PM (#1312718)
The point is that, while Zen Coding is easy to manipulate (C), it's being converted to something hard to manipulate (Assembly) as you go, making it challenging to go back and rearrange things.
Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by Shorel on Sunday May 02, 2010 @02:56PM (#1312929)
I see HTML as very easy to read but bothersome to type.

You really can't compare the level of complexity of HTML vs. assembler or microcode, especially as HTML has no control structures like a for, a while or a setjmp.

Now, if HTML were not so easy to parse-at-a-glance, then you could had a point.

Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by ido on Sunday May 02, 2010 @04:14AM (#1312184)
The problem is that you still have to communicate with others, and others already know html/css/whatever rather than the new whiz-bang tech.
Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by jrockway on Sunday May 02, 2010 @06:02AM (#1312279)
If you want to optimize for other people's productivity, that's fine. But that's not what's best for you.

Also, there is a simple solution to this problem -- a program that converts $foo into HTML and a program that converts HTML into $foo. pandoc is an example.

Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by ido on Sunday May 02, 2010 @08:02AM (#1312372)
Which me? Me the business owner that hires both web designers and programmers? Me the team leader that needs to manage a heterogeneous group of people, each with a different skill-set? Me the one-man-shop (and programmer) who outsources the design work?

If I have both web designers and programmers on my team having them communicate can most certainly be my problem (or at the very least a problem I am gravely effected by).

Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by jrockway on Sunday May 02, 2010 @08:53AM (#1312411)
If only you had hired people that could learn new skills.
Re:If you code HTML, Zen Coding will change your life by ido on Sunday May 02, 2010 @09:34AM (#1312436)
You can say that about any new tech, but truth of the matter is that there are certain advantages to using well know & widely used tech.

I'm not talking about zen-coding or pandoc or any tool specifically, you can make the same argument for e.g. clojure vs java: as much as you'd like to use the shiny new tech, you must at least consider the fact that it's a hell of a lot easier to find x new programmers that can use java proficiently than even x/10 that can use clojure proficiently.

It doesn't mean it should be the overriding deciding factor, but the cost of retraining/learning should at least be taken into account when making that decision.