Re:Criminals can guess Visa number and security code in six ...
by erikpukinskis on Sunday December 04, 2016 @03:08PM
(#13101534)
> Worse, the merchant does not appear to be able to really know when payment from a credit card is actually final.
This is why I find it strange when people wring their hands over Bitcoin's 10 minute settlement window... Credit card transactions are regularly open for weeks if not months!
Re:Criminals can guess Visa number and security code in six ...
by mjevans on Sunday December 04, 2016 @03:32PM
(#13101645)
From the consumer perspective CC transactions are effectively instant, at least for the strip transaction. Even introducing the short delay that the chips involve has been very unpopular. (Why they went with chip+sig is clearly some form of non-security motivation.)
The solution to bitcoin, ironically, would be bitcoin+signature. The signature is forming a contract, a promise to pay. This is different from waiting for /an/ actual payment to clear.
Re:Criminals can guess Visa number and security code in six ...
by ticoombs on Sunday December 04, 2016 @04:49PM
(#13101955)
From my limited use of Bitcoin, the merchants only required the transaction to be broadcast They didn't care if it had 0 or 1 or 100 confirmations. They only cared that it was broadcast. Which makes sense. Considering they all apparently only did 4 Bitcoin transactions a month if not less. (2 cafes and a pub)
This is completely different to how online stores have processed my Bitcoin. Usually waiting for 1-2 confirmations before shipping (Trezor is my example here)
Re:Criminals can guess Visa number and security code in six ...
by lmm on Monday December 05, 2016 @07:03AM
(#13104864)
But I can buy a coffee with my credit card without having to wait weeks or months to get it. This works because people have faith in the system, faith which in turn is built on identity information and legal systems. You could probably achieve the same thing on top of Bitcoin, but at that point why bother with Bitcoin (and the cost is nontrivial)?
Re:Criminals can guess Visa number and security code in six ...
by erikpukinskis on Monday December 05, 2016 @03:37PM
(#13109243)
Bitcoin is the same. Instant verification of authorization, but then it takes 10+ minutes to settle the account.
In other words, there are two possible outcomes to a dispute:
1. Merchant loses. Merchant refunds in full that amount of the charge plus $15-30 for the charge back processing fee.
2. Merchant wins. Merchants gets to keep the amount of the charge, but still must pay the $15-30 charge back processing fee.
From the merchant point of view, the credit card system is very annoying in that regard. If anything happens that requires that someone gets screwed, that someone will be the merchant.
The banks will not allow themselves to be screwed, because they run the system.
The credit card holder is a direct client of the banks, and the banks protect them to keep them happy.
The merchant account provider, which is where the credit card companies actually send the money for the merchant's sales, and is the entity that the credit card companies turn directly to in the case of chargebacks or fraud, protects itself by holding back part of the money it owes the merchant. The merchant account provider ends up holding a buffer of sometimes tens of thousands of dollars of the merchant's sales.
Worse, the merchant does not appear to be able to really know when payment from a credit card is actually final. According to nearly everything I can find on the net and in credit card company documentation, the limit on how old a charge can be charged back is 6 months or 1 year.
I know that is wrong because at a company whose payment handling software I maintain, we got a charge back on a transaction that was several months past a year old.
Another thing I saw that I would have thought impossible had I not actually saw it, was we had a customer who bought a subscription to a monthly service. The initial purchase went through fine (transaction comes back approved, and a day or two later shows up as settled and paid). The renewal next month went through, and so on, for the next six months or so.
Then we got a notice that the last several of these had not actually went through. The issuing bank had told the credit card processor that the transaction was approved, but we were told it was really declined, and no money was actually transferred.