You moved from a sub $200 entry-level phone to something that is (in my country at least) 4X the price and impressed by the experience? Not exactly a fair comparison.

4X the price, but can still be hugely subsidized through a phone contract or simply buying used. Getting any hardware widespread and into the hands of consumers is an artform in itself.

>subsidized through a phone contract or simply buying used

Those aren't solutions because the 'subsidization' is just a payment plan with interest, and the used costs are reflective market prices. It is exactly why whenever I go to Europe I typically bring old devices to sell.

The problem is how can users obtain better devices which will in turn provide a higher quality experience. It's absolutely a solution. Providing an incentive and/or partnership with telecom carriers and allowing the hardware (and perhaps supporting the software) to have lasting resale value is a solution. It doesn't have to be a comparison from what immediately hurts the wallet more... Providing users with an entry barrier to obtain the hardware at (or almost) zero immediate cost is exactly why these contracts exist.

Nah. On Project Fi I had a nice, ritzy Nexus 5X which lists for $450. I moved to an SE. So pretty straightforward comparison.

I am happy for you, but please stop spreading FUD about Google/Android. I would like you to point out a single practical example of tracking in Android that you can't opt out of.

It's not the opt in/out, it's the Intention that matters. It is known that a company built on advertising will want as much data to profile and target you as possible. If you can disable all/most of the telemetry that's nice, but doesn't change the intent of the vendor, nor does it change the way you are perceived as a customer/data source.

This is the same for most vendors; with Apple, they want to make you a happy customer with the hopes that you'll buy whatever they release next, with Microsoft it's more like an ecosystem idea where they'd like you to connect as many services, software suites and devices with their software as possible, connecting home, work, private, and entertainment. It doesn't need to be the best in quality, but definitely in quantity. With Google, they want as much data about you, and as much exposure to ads as possible, with a free opt-out for data gathering, and a paid opt-out for ad serving (i.e. paid apps vs. free apps as other vendors put them in their play store).

Nothing new here, but it's not FUD about Google/Android, it's just the way they work, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The problem isn't that you can't opt out of it. The problem is that Google cripples your phone if you opt out of it. Because Google's software is not designed to function properly without tracking. (For instance, your local Google Maps install won't even remember where you live or your last location search if you turn search history off in the cloud.) Not having basic local-only functionality is silly, unless you're specifically trying to push people to stay in your tracking system.

Are iPhones significantly more functional without cloud connectivity?

Yes. Apple emphasizes data processing on the device itself to enhance privacy.

Additionally the tracking that does take place is generally less invasive, since Apple cares a great deal less about correlating your buying habits with your life history to sell you ads.

Location Services.

If you "opt out" it cripples locations for third party apps. If you opt in Google tracks your location.

Google Accounts.

If you don't put a Google Account on your Android phone it cripples, well, everything. But if you do put a Google Account on it then Google tracks the IP address when it connects to the internet as well as sync times/login times/etc.

Yes, this. Location services. Good luck keeping that off if you use any maps for navigation. Google accounts... Good luck using Android apps securely without the Play store.

I tried rather hard but was ultimately unsuccessful in using Android in any convenient way and not allow Google to track everything I do. If you have any suggestions I am still all ears!

Sure, I could elaborate, but the below comments do a better job than I could have.

> It is good when the manufacturer of a product you pay for has interests in line with your own.

You realize that you traded Google no longer tracking your every step and key press with Apple tracking your every step and key press, right?

And because iOS is closed source, you know even less about what is being tracked than you did with Android.

I'm not judging, I don't really care either way, but your position doesn't seem very rational.

> You realize that you traded Google no longer tracking your every step and key press with Apple tracking your every step and key press, right?

Apple exerts substantial effort to NOT relay unnecessary information to their servers; spend some time in Wireshark and you will see.

> And because iOS is closed source, you know even less about what is being tracked than you did with Android.

Don't get me wrong, AOSP is open source and that's great, but Google Play Services (which you need to use to use the Play store) and friends are completely closed-source. The iOS kernel is open source; it's a pretty similar situation either way. This is not a good argument IMHO.

Do you seriously think Wireshark tells you anything about what is being sent to servers? All it tells you is what hosts are being contacted, but for anything else, you're completely in the dark.

> This is not a good argument IMHO.

I totally agree, so why did you make the argument that you felt that Apple respects your privacy more than Google does?

There's literally no way to know.

All you have to do is look at their business models.

Google exists because of your data. Without it they don't sell ads.

Apple exists because it sells devices. Consumer trust is critical. If it turns out Apple is lying about differential privacy, on-device data processing, etc, then that trust would be broken.

Were Apple lying about your privacy, that information would leak out. It always does.

But go ahead and keep the tinfoil hat firmly in place because you'd rather hate Apple than go with the more secure, more private offering.

Hate Apple? Where did you see I hate Apple? I understand it's comfortable for you to think that since it allows you to continue believing incorrect things about how these companies operate.

The discussion is about disputing the claim that Apple cares about your privacy while Google doesn't.

I'm just demonstrating this argument is not just nonsense, there is simply no way to know what either of these companies do with your information and saying that you don't trust Google with your data and therefore, you pick Apple demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of how both companies work.

Apple hardware is top notch but for me Android OS is way better then iOS to give it up.