Re:TDD: tastes better without the T?
by gfodor on Wednesday April 28, 2010 @11:46AM
(#1301818)
Yes, yes I am. :) The reason being, that first, it's annoying to have to set up the boilerplate for the file. Second, it's annoying to have to convert what I just exercised in the REPL into a test. (Setup, tear down, asserts.)
The reason TDD works and is fun is that you are using tests to learn and explore. It just so happens the artifact of that learning ends up living forever as a test. In a REPL, I'm doing that same learning and exploration already. The act of writing a test becomes as exciting as filing a TPS report.
Here's an example. I've just implemented a new function, and REPL'ed it to solidity. There were about 4-5 ad-hoc calls I made to the function to prove that it worked. I just finally got to the point where I can call it using my 4-5 different arguments, and it always outputs the right thing. Using readline, my arrow keys, and my enter key, I'm repeating the same series of steps over and over until the function works. We all do this. Win.
Now, I'm at a crossroads. Do I just start working on the next piece of the project? I know this piece works, I'm happy with it.
But wait! What if something changes. I need to write a test don't I. Sadness consumes me, since testing is slowing me down. I've already exercised the code, I already know it works, and I've already written the tests, albeit sloppily, in the REPL. Why do I have to switch gears now and start writing a file, running a test runner, and so on?
The truth is: I won't. I'll move onto the next thing, not breaking my flow and not doing something boring, something I already know the outcome of, instead of doing something fun: the next feature.
Maybe those who do switch off and go through the motions to write a test, repeating themselves, are more noble and careful in their programming. But I humbly suspect most of us are more lazy than noble :)
Re:TDD: tastes better without the T?
by gruseom on Wednesday April 28, 2010 @02:41PM
(#1302317)
Just want to say that I've been thinking about REPL vis-à-vis unit testing for a few years now and my experience and conclusions match yours very closely. You've done a nice job of articulating them (here and in the root comment).
Re:TDD: tastes better without the T?
by inerte on Wednesday April 28, 2010 @02:53PM
(#1302350)
I don't know, I'm still not convinced. Guess it'll have to be one of those things that I might change opinions after trying (if someone ever comes up with an implementation).
The reason TDD works and is fun is that you are using tests to learn and explore. It just so happens the artifact of that learning ends up living forever as a test. In a REPL, I'm doing that same learning and exploration already. The act of writing a test becomes as exciting as filing a TPS report.
Here's an example. I've just implemented a new function, and REPL'ed it to solidity. There were about 4-5 ad-hoc calls I made to the function to prove that it worked. I just finally got to the point where I can call it using my 4-5 different arguments, and it always outputs the right thing. Using readline, my arrow keys, and my enter key, I'm repeating the same series of steps over and over until the function works. We all do this. Win.
Now, I'm at a crossroads. Do I just start working on the next piece of the project? I know this piece works, I'm happy with it.
But wait! What if something changes. I need to write a test don't I. Sadness consumes me, since testing is slowing me down. I've already exercised the code, I already know it works, and I've already written the tests, albeit sloppily, in the REPL. Why do I have to switch gears now and start writing a file, running a test runner, and so on?
The truth is: I won't. I'll move onto the next thing, not breaking my flow and not doing something boring, something I already know the outcome of, instead of doing something fun: the next feature.
Maybe those who do switch off and go through the motions to write a test, repeating themselves, are more noble and careful in their programming. But I humbly suspect most of us are more lazy than noble :)