Re:Twitter Suspends Prominent Alt-Right Accounts
by pron on Saturday November 19, 2016 @12:24AM
(#12992228)
> I'm sorry you're getting downvoted. I'm very happy you're willing to engage with me on this.
Thank you, and that's OK. I have more than enough karma points here.
> And you cannot fault the public for this misunderstanding because that is the common and historical meaning of the word.
I don't know if the public is faulted for the misunderstanding or simply racism itself. But it is possible that it's a strategic mistake politically to call people racist and have it taken as a stronger insult than it is meant to be. I think this is certainly a good question for the left to figure out for itself.
> it is possible for a person, even a white person, not to be racist assuming they take appropriate actions? If so, I think we are very close to resolving our disagreement.
The thing is that I'm not sure how much a person can "be racist" individually more than be a part of a group that causes racism. But anyway, it is definitely possible for people to work against racism and make "themselves" (as a group) less racist, and ideally not racist at all. I certainly wouldn't call a person who works towards inclusion and fairness in their community or place of work racist.
> we have made a crucial shift from a "negative ethical obligation" (an obligation not to do direct harm to another) to a positive one (an obligation to take direct action to fix problems you didn't directly cause)
Not exactly because harm is still perpetuated (even if I wasn't the one who dunked you in the swimming pool, if I'm keeping your head under water I'm still causing you harm) but obviously we're talking about less personally caused harm, and you're right that there's an aspect of a call for help here. In terms of political strategy, the question is this: if I turn out to be keeping your head under water unintentionally (say because I just want to lie on my floating mattress), which is more effective for you -- to say that I'm perpetuating the harm done to you, or to beg me for help? The latter may be more effective if it's just me and you, but I don't know which is more effective when entire social groups are concerned.
Thank you, and that's OK. I have more than enough karma points here.
> And you cannot fault the public for this misunderstanding because that is the common and historical meaning of the word.
I don't know if the public is faulted for the misunderstanding or simply racism itself. But it is possible that it's a strategic mistake politically to call people racist and have it taken as a stronger insult than it is meant to be. I think this is certainly a good question for the left to figure out for itself.
> it is possible for a person, even a white person, not to be racist assuming they take appropriate actions? If so, I think we are very close to resolving our disagreement.
The thing is that I'm not sure how much a person can "be racist" individually more than be a part of a group that causes racism. But anyway, it is definitely possible for people to work against racism and make "themselves" (as a group) less racist, and ideally not racist at all. I certainly wouldn't call a person who works towards inclusion and fairness in their community or place of work racist.
> we have made a crucial shift from a "negative ethical obligation" (an obligation not to do direct harm to another) to a positive one (an obligation to take direct action to fix problems you didn't directly cause)
Not exactly because harm is still perpetuated (even if I wasn't the one who dunked you in the swimming pool, if I'm keeping your head under water I'm still causing you harm) but obviously we're talking about less personally caused harm, and you're right that there's an aspect of a call for help here. In terms of political strategy, the question is this: if I turn out to be keeping your head under water unintentionally (say because I just want to lie on my floating mattress), which is more effective for you -- to say that I'm perpetuating the harm done to you, or to beg me for help? The latter may be more effective if it's just me and you, but I don't know which is more effective when entire social groups are concerned.