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A comment on On 2016 Apple: What do “Pro” users want?. Parent comment

Re:On 2016 Apple: What do “Pro” users want? by jasonjei on Wednesday November 16, 2016 @04:01PM (#12971481)
Those versions of Python and Ruby are terribly old. Java is no longer included by default. Clang/LLVM/Git is installed only after you download Xcode.

I believe that is a consequence of macOS being built with BSD foundations. They're there. But let's not pretend macOS *nix/POSIX stuff is great; there's a reason that MacPorts exists.

I'd argue that Ubuntu does offer greater. Let's not pretend Xcode is a good IDE, either. I can't even recall the number of times I had my project crash on me.

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Re:On 2016 Apple: What do “Pro” users want? by atemerev on Wednesday November 16, 2016 @04:05PM (#12971510)
Now, yes, they are (not terribly, but it's better to install Homebrew and update it). I am describing the situation a few years ago.

And no, e.g. Ubuntu doesn't include Ruby or Git in default installation, nor FreeBSD.

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Re:On 2016 Apple: What do “Pro” users want? by swordsmith on Wednesday November 16, 2016 @04:28PM (#12971738)
Why should Ruby, Git and a bunch of other tools be in the default installation? If you are a developer installing it is easy enough. If I want a minimum dev environment, I don't want to go around searching and uninstalling a bunch of packages.

Convenience to development should be measured by how easy it is to install/access development tools when you need them -- such as how well the package manager work, not how much stuff the base system come with.

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Re:On 2016 Apple: What do “Pro” users want? by jasonjei on Wednesday November 16, 2016 @04:08PM (#12971536)
macOS doesn't offer Ruby/Git on default install either. Even the situation during Leopard, people railed about how old the versions Apple distributed (many libraries and binaries were riddled with security vulnerabilities and updated infrequently).

Actually, I believe you can install Ruby/Git on Ubuntu install if you toggle Development tools. But anyone doing serious Ruby development will use rvm/docker.

Even when Ruby was included in Lion, nobody developing Ruby apps could use the vendor-supplied stuff. I remember this from back in 2008. There were countless blog articles telling you to download Ruby and compile. The situation from a decade ago caused a ton of pain in bootstrapping a developer setup.

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