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Re:On Geeks and Gays by wheels on Monday April 26, 2010 @09:59PM (#1296907)
I think the reservations are built on a couple things:

• It's not hard to argue that it's good for a child to have a mom and a dad. I'm not going to get into such, but whether or not you agree, let's just accept that it's not a wild notion.

• Adoption is one of the few places where there's any chance for society to evaluate the fitness of parents before they can have children. Usually it just happens.

• A male-male couple (edit: or single male, or infertile female(s)) is the only combination that's forced into adoption, thus with the prior two points in mind, it's the only one where they are ipso facto subjected to societal evaluation, for a coupling that some consider less than perfect for children.

Now the reality is that most sets of parents are far from ideal. No doubt two loving gay parents is healthier than quarrelsome straight parents. But if quarrelsome parents are knocked up biology, not society sets the conditions.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by aphyr on Monday April 26, 2010 @10:13PM (#1296944)
It's not hard to argue that it's good for a child to have a mom and a dad.

The APA's official stance (one borne out by my personal experience with gay families) is that there is no difference in the well-being of children raised by two same-sex parents or two opposite-sex parents.

"...the results of existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite clear: Common stereotypes are not supported by the data."

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/parenting.aspx

Re:On Geeks and Gays by wheels on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @12:04AM (#1297175)
See, the thing is, both replies jumped directly on the point I was trying not to make.

I wasn't answering with my belief, nor was I saying that gay parents are worse, but trying to get at where the root of apprehension might lie with liberal-minded folks, such as the case was in the article.

What I was trying to say is that such a belief is fairly prevalent and well short of nutjobbery.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by aphyr on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @01:19AM (#1297288)
Ah, I gotcha. I do agree with the rest of your reasoning.

I've had this debate before (strangely enough, at a faith-based LGBT family meeting with leaders of the Willow Creek megachurch in Chicago), and that particular point has been a sore sticking point. In its weak form (as you've presented) it does nothing to address the matter of LGBT parents, and in its strong form (gay parents are worse), it contradicts pretty much all available evidence.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by puredemo on Monday April 26, 2010 @10:10PM (#1296937)
From what I understand, most studies show that the most important thing is for kids to have two parents -- kids raised in single parent households didn't do as well (but I'm not sure how many associated variables were controlled for.)

The gender of the two parents didn't seem to have much of an impact.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by axod on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @05:39AM (#1297707)
Isn't it often the case though that in gay couples one is more masculine and the other more feminine? Or dominant/submissive perhaps.

That's probably more important - having both types of personality present?

Re:On Geeks and Gays by henrikschroder on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @06:02AM (#1297737)
No, that is a stereotype. Most gay couples don't look like that.
Re:On Geeks and Gays by axod on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @06:14AM (#1297757)
I wasn't talking about 'looks'. I was talking about behavior.

Whenever I see gay couples on documentaries etc, there almost always seems to be one 'feminine' one, and one 'masculine' one. Regardless of what sex they actually are.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by henrikschroder on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @06:19AM (#1297766)
Documentaries != real life.
Re:On Geeks and Gays by axod on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @07:04AM (#1297823)
Documentaries are a subset of real life. So there must at the minimum be some couples who fit this pattern :/
Re:On Geeks and Gays by henrikschroder on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @07:42AM (#1297869)
Of course, you'll find the same pattern among some straight couples as well. Your original statement that most gay couples fit the pattern simply isn't true, most couples of gay men is two guys living together, dividing household chores in a way that does not follow stereotypical gender roles, and most couples of gay women living together is the same. Hell, even most straight couples I know don't divide household chores that way, or have one partner being the dominant one.

So no, you are not likely to find the "male"/"female" pattern among gay couples, but since it's not even common among straight couples, I strongly doubt it's relevant for raising children.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by axod on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @07:50AM (#1297883)
I'm not sure where you're basing that on.

Most couples have pretty strongly defined roles. For example, if a shelf needs putting up, it's more than likely that the male will be tasked with this. If a daughter is after makeup advice, it's likely that they'll go to their mother rather than father.

Perhaps you're reading way more into what I'm saying than is actually there.

Re:On Geeks and Gays by henrikschroder on Tuesday April 27, 2010 @05:55PM (#1299882)
Fair enough, I had totally different actions in mind, but for your examples I can see how those are very likely to be divided by gender in straight households.

However, when it comes to gay relationships, you generally can't make any prediction about who does what or how the chores are divided. The notion that all relationships have (or worse: has to have) a "male" and a "female" is completely unfounded.