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Re:Reasons not to use Uber by elcct on Saturday November 12, 2016 @12:49PM (#12939040)
> AirBnB: Transforms residential housing into (in most jurisdictions) illegal hotels.

Huge part of this is actually state over-regulation. People just can't build houses. If local folks can earn some money on the side by renting out their houses, this is a good thing. Why tourists should be forced to pay for over-expensive hotels? Instead of pressing companies like AirBnB, people should press governments to remove regulations that are not necessary only serve to hire civil servants out of family members of ruling parties (not to mention pocketing bribes to give permissions to build) and make the money for the privileged.

By asking for even more regulation, you are just tightening the loop on your neck.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Anderkent on Saturday November 12, 2016 @01:30PM (#12939334)
> Why tourists should be forced to pay for over-expensive hotels?

Because the costs of those tourists being is not on the owner of the flat, but their neighbours - who've bought or rented their homes with the expectation of a residential area, not living next to a hotel.

Zoning laws are not arbitrary rent-seeking enablers; they're protection against damaging behaviour that is difficult to enforce on a case-by-case basis.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by rorykoehler on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:52AM (#12943094)
>ho've bought or rented their homes with the expectation of a residential area, not living next to a hotel.

Who cares as long as the tourists are respectful? I never understood this line of reasoning. You could end up living next to a nightmare neighbour too and the suffering would be long term as you're stuck with them.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by tbrownaw on Saturday November 12, 2016 @05:28PM (#12940560)
Zoning laws are not arbitrary rent-seeking enablers; they're protection against damaging behaviour that is difficult to enforce on a case-by-case basis.

They're also am excellent way to separate people out according to social class / lifestyle.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by elcct on Saturday November 12, 2016 @02:01PM (#12939527)
> who've bought or rented their homes with the expectation of a residential area, not living next to a hotel.

Well, if you are xenophobic then maybe you should buy a farm somewhere nowhere when you won't be seeing strangers.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by throwaway729 on Saturday November 12, 2016 @02:54PM (#12939831)
I don't think there's necessarily a xenophobic component to not wanting to live next to a hotel. In fact, that explanation seems pretty unlikely -- I don't typically see concentrations of minorities when I'm at hotels in the US... most customers are your average middle class professional on business, or vacationing middle class family.

I wouldn't want to live next to any hotel, including a 5 start resort catering to mostly domestic customers.

Hotels bring a lot of problems -- bursts of foot/auto traffic at weird times of the night, public drinking/drunkenness and loud groups of pedestrians on week nights, etc.

Nothing wrong with any of that -- vacations should be fun! -- but when it's happening every other Tuesday night in the next-door apartment, it can get super annoying.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by elcct on Saturday November 12, 2016 @03:23PM (#12939969)
As xenophobia I meant fear of strangers in general. What you listed really sounds like you should have a farm. Those things in residential areas are unavoidable.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Anderkent on Saturday November 12, 2016 @03:54PM (#12940136)
Those thing occur sometimes, but rarely, in a purely residential area. someone has a louder party every couple of months, people travel now and then... Compare to basically every week with a flat that's being airbnb'd constantly.

They're entirely avoidable. I live in central london, and I've never had any issues with neighbours until I moved to a flat where the landlord upstairs decided to just full-time airbnb the place, rather than rent to someone permanent.

Tourists are way more inconsiderate of neighbours. It makes sense - they're never going to meet us, they're just here to have fun. But pretending it has no impact on the quality of the area is silly.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by elcct on Saturday November 12, 2016 @07:28PM (#12941072)
There are already laws in place if neighbour is noisy. Also if you move to a flat you have to factor in that such situation might happen. That is just a nature of flats. If not Airbnb, flat above could be bought / rented by party students or family with 10 kids. You never know and that's why flats are considerably cheaper than houses where you can have more certainty.

> Tourists are way more inconsiderate of neighbours.

You cannot generalise. If tourists are making noises then there are anti social reporting services that you can use.

Airbnb is not only for tourists, but it is used by people who just moved in and are looking for a place to rent and don't want to spend fortune on hotels or for example it is a great alternative for contractors - having for example 1 month assignment, why spend money on hotel?

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by throwaway729 on Saturday November 12, 2016 @03:25PM (#12939979)
> Those things in residential areas are unavoidable.

This is not my experience. Even in urban areas I've lived places that are not like this.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Anderkent on Saturday November 12, 2016 @02:49PM (#12939811)
Or maybe I dislike being woken up at 5am every week by people banging around with their huge bags on the staircase.

I'm sure that's some sort of xenophobia.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by xapata on Saturday November 12, 2016 @04:19PM (#12940284)
That's a different problem. Don't ban all guests just because you don't like loud guests at 5am.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Anderkent on Saturday November 12, 2016 @04:27PM (#12940309)
No, it is exactly the same problem. It's impossible to police whether a particular short-term guest is a loud one or a quiet one. So we separate the areas where tourists stay, where hotels are, from the residential ones where people live permanently.

It's a great solution, until people start defecting and creating things like airbnb.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by xapata on Saturday November 12, 2016 @04:47PM (#12940395)
"Impossible" is a bold claim. There are all sorts of things that condo associations regulate.

To put it another way: some people drive while intoxicated, but drinking alcohol is still legal.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Anderkent on Saturday November 12, 2016 @05:07PM (#12940477)
Alright, maybe there is some way of doing it on a lower level. But in most cities I've lived 'condo associations' aren't a thing, and this is simply resolved with zoning laws.

Once a replacement solution is implemented, I'm happy to start arguing for airbnb to be legal. Though it seems like it would likely eliminate the price advantage that airbnbs currently enjoy.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by xapata on Saturday November 12, 2016 @07:33PM (#12941091)
How would you deal with a neighboring homeowner that was noisy every weekend at 5am?

(not a rhetorical question)

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by Broken_Hippo on Sunday November 13, 2016 @05:11AM (#12942657)
Some would call the cops, but this still isn't the same as having different people in there from weekend to weekend.

In the AirBNB situation, the police could be giving a citation to a different person from weekend to weekend. If it were a traditional rental, the landlord could force the offenders out: But I'm not sure if there is much legal recourse for a series of short-term rentals being loud.

And some of the noise isn't such that you can get legal help. Loud vehicles and people banging luggage up and down stairs is one of those disturbing things that is over by the time you call the cops. What then?

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by xapata on Sunday November 13, 2016 @07:01AM (#12942942)
The landlord/owner is responsible regardless of whether there's a single long-term tenant, many short-term tenants, or the owner resides in the home.

I'm thinking of all the annoying neighbor situations I've had over the years. Luggage banging in the hallway at odd hours is mild compared to a modified motorcycle coming home at 2am.

A tenant has a right to "quiet enjoyment" so if everyone is part of the same apartment complex, you can force the landlord to take care of things. However, if you're in a row of single family homes... Didn't they make a couple movies recently about fighting with bad neighbors? Also, I don't think the cops are going to help if the neighbor slams their door when they leave home every morning at 5am or if their yappy dog is lonely most of the day.

I think we should try to create some standards for being a good neighbor. If an AirBnB host can ensure their guests meet that standard, then there's no problem.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by mackmgg on Saturday November 12, 2016 @01:16PM (#12939225)
Except, some of that regulation is important. If you're in a hotel, and there's a fire, you know to follow the signs out. There are exit signs, emergency lights, and maps showing you where to go. In someone's house, they don't have any of that, which isn't an issue for the person living there, because of course they know how to get out of their own house. But when it's being rented out, there are certain regulations to make sure that someone unfamiliar with a building can still exit in a fire.

Driving up rent is something that's probably unavoidable, but safety is something AirBNB could try to enforce if they wanted to.

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by hehheh on Saturday November 12, 2016 @03:51PM (#12940121)
Is it hard to figure out how to get out of a house in an emergency? I mean, houses are only so big, and are typically one to two stories tall. They're not a large hotel with windows that don't open and halls that are nothing but doors.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by billyhoffman on Sunday November 13, 2016 @06:49AM (#12942913)
I just got back from an airbnb in Amsterdam, where the windows in the bedroom literally had keyed locks on the inside on the windows. They look like normal window sliders until you look closely and happened to notice a tiny keyhole. I never found any key the entire week I was staying there.

Could I have gotten out in a fire? Probably. But it's definitely less obvious and less well-equipped than in a hotel for Directing unfamiliar residents out of the building

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by megablast on Sunday November 13, 2016 @02:36AM (#12942297)
So you have never heard of apartments.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by dzhiurgis on Saturday November 12, 2016 @05:49PM (#12940637)
If you sleep at your friends or ONS's place you won't know how to get out either.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by elcct on Saturday November 12, 2016 @01:34PM (#12939356)
And that should be up to you to decide, not the state. Nobody forces you to use Airbnb. Also you can just ask how to get out in case of fire.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by fegu on Saturday November 12, 2016 @03:31PM (#12940007)
In a pure libertarian society this might make sense in theory. But when people are injured we all get to pay either through socialised health care or health insurance increasing. This is part of the reason why seat belts are mandatory, your injured sorry ass hurts us all. Thus we should get a say in you not hurting yourself.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by CreRecombinase on Saturday November 12, 2016 @12:52PM (#12939070)
That's not the way the law works though. You don't get to decide which ones are worth following.
Re:Reasons not to use Uber by pmoriarty on Saturday November 12, 2016 @01:08PM (#12939171)
"That's not the way the law works though. You don't get to decide which ones are worth following."

You do. See: civil disobedience.[1]

Also, just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong. A simple example were the laws against helping runaway slaves in the US. Many today would agree that helping runaway slaves was the right thing to do, but yet it was illegal. There were similar laws against helping Jews in Nazi Germany. Once again, just because you broke the law by helping a Jew wouldn't mean you did the wrong thing.

That's not to say there's any sort of moral equivalence between people (allegedly) breaking laws by participating in Uber or AirBnb and those who helped runaway slaves or Jews in Nazi Germany. They're just examples to show that breaking a law need not automatically be wrong, and that doing the right thing can be more important than obeying the law.

Finally, there are plenty of examples of stupid laws and outdated laws. Laws against sodomy or against dildos over a certain length spring to mind. Both of these existed relatively recently in the US (and possibly still exist), but they were pretty much ignored, and few people would have considered themselves to be in the wrong if they broke those laws.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience

Re:Reasons not to use Uber by smsm42 on Saturday November 12, 2016 @12:59PM (#12939116)