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Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by gragas on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:28AM (#12837638)
Well, there seems to be tremendous support behind what he is saying. The chat is exploding.

My favorite takeaway so far:

[Thiel on Trump] "The media always takes him literally, but never seriously. I think his supporters take him seriously, but never literally."

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by MichaelGG on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:47AM (#12837854)
It astounds me how people have set it up in their minds. One friend from SF, who was incredibly anti war, who earlier said Trump was dangerous because he'd start a war, actually said "It's not like we'd really go to war with Russia, it'd just be a proxy war like Vietnam" -- as a reason for why Clinton will be an OK choice. The accuracy of the comment doesn't matter, but the fact people are willing to accept it is mind boggling.

And then I've been told I can't understand, can't have a real opinion, etc. cause I'm a white guy and thus too privileged for my mind to comprehend things correctly.

Even on HN, the yc guys actually said they cannot understand how Thiel can support Trump. If you find yourself saying that, it indicates your understanding is deficient, not the other way around.

It annoys me because this lack of critical thinking is going to cause a huge backlash and I'm afraid some positive liberal values could be collateral damage.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by vehementi on Monday October 31, 2016 @06:55PM (#12841702)
"I can't understand how he can support him" doesn't literally mean "I do not perceive the facts", it is "I find it incredible that he holds weights on various factors such that he made a list of pros and cons, calculated the net value based on the factors' weights, and came to the conclusion that supporting Trump is net good in this situation".

For example if someone's weights are:

disruptor, 100

shows signs of insanity, 0.1

then I can "understand" that they support DT. I can't understand why they choose to weigh certain factors like that.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by remarkEon on Monday October 31, 2016 @05:34PM (#12841119)
> If you find yourself saying that, it indicates your understanding is deficient, not the other way around.

My philosophy professor used to give us a ethical debate prompt, and we'd develop our initial positions. Then he'd have us argue the opposite position. Extremely helpful exercise.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by BryantD on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:39AM (#12837758)
A snapshot of comments from the chat:

"Hillary's only claim to fame is she is the only woman not to suck Bill's cock. "

"god this interviewer. CUCKED"

"FBI Stumbled onto Huma's INS Policy to keep her from being Vince Fostered... 53 dead around hillary makes the mob look like Pikers."

"Liberals think Taxes are more important than Hillary Butchering People!!!! Really?! Wake up peeps"

"Wikileaks will ultimately put the Clintons in prison and will hopefully allow President Trump to prosecute the entire Obama administration past and present!"

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by gragas on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:43AM (#12837795)
Let me reiterate Thiel's quote, which I think perfectly describes this situation: "The media always takes him literally, but never seriously. I think his supporters take him seriously, but never literally."

Most of Trump's HIGH ENERGY comes from him and his supporters saying over-exaggerated things. Everyone who supports him understands that these things are over the top, but they agree with the basic sentiment behind them.

Most people who dislike Trump, however, take everything he and his supporters say literally. This is a mistake.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by BryantD on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:52AM (#12837909)
Unfortunately, this leaves me with no way to distinguish between genuinely alarming sentiments and exaggerations. I can't support blurring that line.

For example, you can say that Trump didn't really mean you should vote twice, and perhaps he didn't. On the other hand, that isn't stopping some of his supporters from voting twice. So did he mean it? Or is he just accidentally encouraging it because some people are taking him literally? Either way is bad.

Trump's staff didn't kick the guy chanting "Jew-S-A" out of his rally. Conway says she would have kicked him out, which is nice, but nobody on the ground did it. Does that mean Trump thinks the chanter was just over-exaggerating his racism? Would it be OK for Trump to chant the same thing, since we're not supposed to take him literally?

I think it's preferable if people running for President make it clear when they're being sincere.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by ConfuciusSay02 on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @03:43PM (#12849410)
Except that he never actually said voters should vote twice, he was implying that his opponents do, and the quote was 100% completely twisted by the media: http://www.mediaite.com/online/cnn-screws-up-says-trump-enco...

Unfortunately, this type of media attack on Trump, whatever you think of him, is common, and it makes people think twice about the credibility of the media and how they're pushing Clinton so very hard.

Furthermore, it seems like a really bad idea for people to base their voting decisions on what "supporters" of a candidate are doing, especially given that we've seen hard evidence of paid infiltrators agitating as fake supporters in order to make candidates look bad.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by gragas on Monday October 31, 2016 @12:03PM (#12838043)
You do realize that people are specifically voting against the ideology that backs your opinion, right? People aren't voting for Trump because he's racist or sexist; they are voting for Trump because of the ideology behind moral-elitist people like you.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by vehementi on Monday October 31, 2016 @06:46PM (#12841650)
Wait, they're voting for Trump to spite moral elitists, not because Trump will make america great again? That's their whole motivation - not trade deficit, not immigration, not the economy, not jobs -- but to vote against moral-elitist people like GP? Holy shit, that absolutely crushes the credibility of Trump and all of his supporters. Wow.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by tzs on Monday October 31, 2016 @12:31PM (#12838366)
So how do I tell what his actual positions are?

For example, when he says that vaccinations and doctors cause autism [1], how can I tell if he really believes that (which has bad implications for public health under a Trump presidency), or if it is just something over the top?

Same with climate change...how do I tell if he really believes it is a Chinese plot [1] to get us to cripple our economy, or he is just saying something over the top?

If these are just over the top exaggerations for the sake of HIGH ENERGY, and his supporters understand "that these things are over the top, but they agree with the basic sentiment behind them", could you explain just what that basic sentiment is?

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/trump-comments-on...

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by crispyambulance on Monday October 31, 2016 @01:13PM (#12838750)
It doesn't matter what his _actual_ positions are. Trump represents a total F-U to American politics. This is what his people WANT.

He can say anything he wants and get away with it (... and he literally has).

There is some precedent here. Berlusconi in Italy was a similar character (another a-hole media billionaire) who ended up making Italian politics a laughing-stock by grossly mismanaging the running of government. Like Trump, he appealed to fake old-timey values, people were willing to ignore his appalling behavior and character flaws and accept him like some nasty uncle-like figure.

Unfortunately, someone like Trump as president in the USA would be capable of far more damage geopolitically and economically than that clown, Berlusconi, in Italy ever could.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by MichaelGG on Monday October 31, 2016 @06:19PM (#12841481)
Exactly. From the moment I saw Trump, I was excited because it is a radical departure. As close to an independent (both parties hate him!) as is possible in the US and still win.

What specific actions do you think Trump would take that'd create so much damage? And are those things more damaging than allowing a corrupt party (see WL emails on DNC on Bernie) to win? To say hey, corruption's OK in the US, even when it's totally public? Or to get people to think that war with Russia, even if in another country, might be OK?

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by vehementi on Monday October 31, 2016 @06:49PM (#12841668)
GP gave a couple of easy ones for you: climate change and vaccinations. Is he lying/exaggerating (not sure how you can exaggerate an absolute non-issue like vaccinations) about those things or is he severely dangerous?
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by tptacek on Tuesday November 01, 2016 @08:07AM (#12844967)
Something must be done! This is something!
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by crispyambulance on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:51AM (#12837889)
You're right that is a mistake.

Knowingly or not, Trump has played the media like a fiddle, giving them tons of useless grist in which to spin their wheels in exchange for the equivalent of a Billion dollars in media time which he has used shrewdly to build up his base.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by makomk on Monday October 31, 2016 @05:24PM (#12841031)
I'm not sure it's Trump that played the media like a fiddle, or at least he had help from a certain Hillary Clinton whose campaign strategy (per the e-mail leaks) was to make him look like a plausible candidate and downplay the actual serious candidates. Basically, her strategy seems to have been to try and make sure what her campaign considered the worst candidate possible ran against her, and she sure as hell has a lot more media connections to pull that off with than Trump ever did.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by MichaelGG on Monday October 31, 2016 @12:20PM (#12838246)
This is the other excellent outcome. People trust the news, they eat it up. Trump has shown it to be a farce, a circus (thinking of the tape he leaked a few months ago that got him a full day of coverage about absolutely nothing). This can only be a good thing, although perhaps I'm overestimating the number of people that will actually change habits.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by scott_s on Monday October 31, 2016 @01:17PM (#12838793)
I think you are making two claims, but I want to make sure. Are you claiming that:

1. Trump himself leaked the Access Hollywood recording; and

2. There was nothing relevant in the Access Hollywood recording.

The Access Hollywood recording came out at the beginning of this month, so I'm not sure if that's the one you're referring to.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by MichaelGG on Monday October 31, 2016 @05:18PM (#12840990)
No I'm referring to the People Magazine interview, the one where he called back in and pretended to be a Trump employee. Washington Post "broke" the story IIRC, and the media spent a whole day with audio forensic analysts deciding "is this Trump's voice?". Trump got on interviews and says "Well it doesn't sound like me. When is this from? 25 years ago? Come on."

Here's a great cap of it at the end of the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnMfSJ_qis - skip to 1:50. You can even hear the studio crew start laughing as they realise they've been played.

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by scott_s on Monday October 31, 2016 @09:00PM (#12842513)
Understood on the tape you meant. Are you claiming Trump is the one who leaked it?
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by prolixus on Monday October 31, 2016 @05:19PM (#12840998)
No, he's referring to the John Miller tape where years ago Trump called up a reporter and pretended to be a PR person so he could brag about himself.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by radarsat1 on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:45AM (#12837823)
There are plenty of people who dislike the basic sentiment behind many things that Trump has said.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by gragas on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:48AM (#12837862)
Sure. And there are more than one hundred million Americans who disagree with the basic sentiment behind what Hillary says.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by radarsat1 on Monday October 31, 2016 @12:01PM (#12838021)
So... what are you saying then?
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by augustt on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:51AM (#12837898)
Interesting, I thought "tells it like it is" was his whole appeal. As soon as he's in hot water, though, he was being sarcastic! It was just locker room talk!
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by subsection1h on Monday October 31, 2016 @05:45PM (#12841225)
> Most of Trump's HIGH ENERGY comes from him and his supporters saying over-exaggerated things.

Imagine that you're older, let's say 40, and no longer a college kid. Do you think you will be more likely to describe Trump's statements as "HIGH ENERGY" (all caps) or "childish"?

Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by pdog on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:44AM (#12837804)
YouTube comments are terrible. What's your point?
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by BryantD on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:53AM (#12837923)
My point is that "Well, there seems to be tremendous support behind what he is saying. The chat is exploding." doesn't tell us much. Who cares if the chat is exploding? It's exploding with comments like that.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by TheDrizzle43 on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:42AM (#12837789)
What an inspirational group of people.
Re:Peter Thiel Speaks at the National Press Club – Live Stream by augustt on Monday October 31, 2016 @11:44AM (#12837809)
If you were wondering where "deplorable" came from, look no further than that chat.