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Re:Shame on Y Combinator by jimbokun on Tuesday October 18, 2016 @01:50PM (#12736957)
"But you assume Trump's statements are literally what he wants to enact."

I am exhausted by all of the requests by Trump supporters to somehow magically read the tea leaves and interpret what Trump really means to do, while ignoring everything he consistently says he will do.

Like how Trump claimed he sexually assaulted women, then many women came forward and said, yes, he sexually assaulted them, and now we are expected to not believe Trump then, and not believe any of these dozen or so women, but instead only believe Trump today, who of course would never possibly be trying to deny something that's true but politically (and maybe criminally) damaging to himself.

How about we just go back to people running for office actually saying what they intend to do, and voters taking them at face value?

(Which, by the way, is surprisingly close to how most politicians actually behave. George W. promised to cut taxes, and cut taxes. Obama actually passed something embodying a lot of his health care ideas and negotiated with our enemies like Iran. There are many other examples of politicians actually trying to do what they promised, so I think it's a little dangerous to assume a politician won't actually try to do what he says he will do.)

Re:Shame on Y Combinator by librvf on Wednesday October 19, 2016 @10:59AM (#12744370)
> I am exhausted by all of the requests

Well get un-exhausted and stop pretending not to understand negotiation techniques (this community is primarily about start-ups, is it not?).

Trump is a negotiator. He has been a negotiator his whole life. An aggressive opening bid is openly part of his style.

Trump is also an entertainer, he knows how to push people's buttons and get people engaged using visual imagery and drama. He does this to combat the hostile and equally (usually more) dishonest mudslinging that all modern politicians engage in.

He also knows how to use his skill at PR as leverage. Someone negotiating with him knows that he can rally the public to push for, say, Term Limits or something. Or, if you're cooperative, maybe he'll use that same rhetorical entertainer skill to help you out. Have you noticed how often Trump, usually in a seeming offhand manner, praises the people and groups who do business with him?

It's really not that hard to understand. You should not be getting exhausted over this.

> How about we just go back to people running for office actually saying what they intend to do, and voters taking them at face value?

This is due to the methods that modern politicians use to win votes. Their published platforms are always vague and lack REAL details. And even if and when they have real details, any thinking person knows that there are two huge problems to implementing any proposed change: (1) opposition from system (eg congress) (2) circumstances change and the policy no longer makes sense. So instead of going into all the details about how they're going to implement their free ice cream policy, they spend massive amounts of money on PR (friendly press hits, TV ads, attack ads) to influence voters using rhetoric and exposure.

Of course Clinton's campaign has been legendarily dishonest and unethical [1]. But they all do it to some extent.

You cite Obama's campaign? Other than healthcare, what do you actually remember about his platform? What I remember is a lot of vague rhetoric about "Hope and Change." He was heavily critical of Bush's wars, and yet Obama's foreign policy has been full of violence and war.

> Which, by the way, is surprisingly close to how most politicians actually behave. George W. promised to cut taxes, and cut taxes.

GW Bush invaded Iraq. I don't remember that being on his platform, do you?

[1] http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/10/17/exclusive...

> Like how Trump claimed he sexually assaulted women,

Except he didn't. This is a blatantly ignorant interpretation of the conversation that ignores the implied levity and non-seriousness of the exchange and the explicit claim that consent is granted.