News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by deelowe on Monday October 10, 2016 @08:12PM (#12680915)
As a father whose young son had a compound fracture recently and had to wait in the ER for 3 hours to get it patched up by a grumpy, rushed, and tired ortho, this is horrifying.

Something really needs to be done about current crony capitalistic US medical industry.

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by pjlegato on Monday October 10, 2016 @08:28PM (#12680999)
I'm not sure that capitalism as such has much to do with the problem you describe, as anyone who ever went to a Soviet emergency room will be happy to tell you.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by gnu8 on Monday October 10, 2016 @08:33PM (#12681034)
The Soviet healthcare system suffered from underinvestment due to their command economy's focus on heavy industry and military production. The problem in the United States is the exact opposite: unproductive overinvestment due to the proliferation of waste, fraud, rent-seekers, and all other types of interests that rake a profit off the top without contributing anything to patient care. It seems like a false argument to claim that because a radically socialist regime provided inferior care, our radically capitalist regime is not the cause of our inferior care.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by nugget on Monday October 10, 2016 @09:03PM (#12681184)
I believe pjlegato's point was that while idealism may attract many students into medicine, it's ultimately the profit motive that keeps them working 60+ hour weeks and taking call for decades.

I have a few physicians in my extended family and this mirrors what I've seen from them; I don't know how you'd get board certified neurosurgeons to take q3 trauma call in more rural areas for years on end other than ''here's a boatload of money''. It's masochistic work.

Capitalism, especially our current flavor of it, has plenty of problems, but I think it's important to separate the core principals (mostly free markets, pursuit of self interest) from the pollutants (loopholes, cronyism and special interests).

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by stevendhansen on Monday October 10, 2016 @09:11PM (#12681212)
"our radically capitalist regime"

Citation required. I'd venture the US is more accurately described as a hybrid socialist / mercantilist regime than a capitalist regime.

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by thatcat on Monday October 10, 2016 @09:51PM (#12681348)
The US seems more of a militaristic-mercantile regime when you consider the way the budget is allocated. Sure US has progressive taxes that are pretty high, but no single payer health care, outrageously priced education system, and few social safety nets - all indicate a low level of "social ownership over means of production" which is a defining characteristic of socialism.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by WalterBright on Monday October 10, 2016 @10:56PM (#12681577)
The US health care system has not been a free market for 50 years, likely much longer. It's got very heavy government involvement at all levels.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by deelowe on Friday October 14, 2016 @05:38PM (#12711289)
I said crony capitalism. I'm a free market libertarian and would totally support such a solution. Today, I had no choice in which ortho saw my son, I had no ability to discuss pricing, my insurance is limited to just the one my company provides and on and on...
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by winter_blue on Monday October 10, 2016 @11:57PM (#12681775)
The solution might just be to expand or establish more medical schools, and graduate more doctors.

If there were twice as many doctors, the existing doctors probably wouldn't need to work 80 hours a week, and could likely cut down to 40 hours.

The other problem might be that doctors are paid extremely well in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world, and even compared to other rich first-world countries.

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by johan_larson on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @05:24AM (#12682752)
The problem is residency, not the medical schools. The medical schools actually turn out slightly more graduates than find places in residency programs. And without completing a residency, you aren't allowed to practice medicine.

Proposals to expand residency run into the problem that it costs the government money. Residencies are funded at the federal level; teaching hospitals get a certain amount of money per resident to compensate for the effort required to train them. And the number of residencies funded per year has (I think?) been maintained at a pretty constant level compared for a long time, with so many new doctors per year per million people.

One option, I suppose, would be to allow self-funded residencies. Why should only the government's money be good enough? But that would probably be an option only for wealthy students, or those who are willing to go even further into debt.

Another option would be to replace residencies with something more like conventional apprenticeship. Is there any reason a new doctor has to learn the practical details of her trade at a hospital, rather than working under the supervision of an experienced doctor in private practice?

Of course, nothing like this is likely to happen. The whole medical industry is extensively regulated; those regulatory barriers are wide moats that ensure fat incomes and profits, which in turn create strong interest in keeping things as they are. Barring utter crisis, nothing is going to change.

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by M_Grey on Monday October 10, 2016 @09:05PM (#12681193)
The solution is automation.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by jmde on Monday October 10, 2016 @09:21PM (#12681245)
... and/or deregulation (reregulation?) to open up competition. Often if not usually, the same task could be just as skillfully by done, or even more skillfully or appropriately done, by someone with a different educational route, with or without training beyond what is now typical (e.g., NPs, nurse anesthetists, PAs, optometrists, psychologists, pharmacists, RNs, you name it).

PAs provide an instructive example, but there are many others of different sorts. Often, PA schools have stricter prerequisite experience requirements, and PA students often take the bulk of their courses with the MD students, and have maybe a semester less of courses, before clinical training. So the end effect is that a PA's actual experience is often the comparable to an MD's after a couple of years of practice. Hospitals and health care systems know this, and have been gradually replacing MDs in many areas with PAs because they're cheaper but provide similar care.

We can't afford to maintain this fiction that the only way to have something skillfully done is by the MD training model.

Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by thechao on Tuesday October 11, 2016 @08:02AM (#12683532)
Bar none, the happiest group of graduate students I ever worked with (at a hospital, or not) were the PAs. The education is focused, fulfilling, demanding without being exhausting. The pay is great (I know a number of guys who did a path of: high school flunkout -> GED -> nurse -> PA). Furthermore (at least 15 years ago), they don't have to deal with the vast majority of the insurance BS... they basically get to help & heal.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by carterehsmith on Monday October 10, 2016 @10:28PM (#12681477)
Yup, we just need a startup that makes Robotic Surgeons and Nurses. Easy peasy.
Re:Medical school can be brutal, and it’s making many of us ... by M_Grey on Monday October 10, 2016 @10:32PM (#12681493)
I'm not arguing that it's possible now, but then, we face a lot of problems without immediate solutions.