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Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by wvenable on Friday October 07, 2016 @03:04AM (#12658741)
Browsers have improved greatly and new web development frameworks are necessary to make use of those improvements but the actual process of building usable web application doesn't seem that improved. It's certainly not any easier to achieve pretty much the same results.

> The idea o a web-based office suite on the web would have been laughable 20 years ago.

What's laughable is how much effort has gone into rebuilding something in this platform with a result that is nearly the same (but worse) as what existed 20 years ago.

Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by optionalparens on Friday October 07, 2016 @12:29PM (#12661921)
What kills me about a lot of the technology we use today is that few people, at least in positions of power are brave enough to pause every now and then and say, "WTF are we doing?" So many technologies live on because of so-called "critical mass," big investments, marketplace skills, and other things that are about anything other than the technology itself. These of course are mostly practical reasons and important ones at that, but at some point it becomes impractical to continue to cling to the practical reasons. IMO, the ability to do something truly different to make an advancement is often what separates innovators and intelligent people from the rest. When someone does try to act, the market essentially crushes them accordingly, making most efforts null and void, and dulling the senses and hope of everyone else watching, warning them not to try anything themselves.

x86 CPUs, web browsers, popular operating systems, and so on are all examples of this problem. At some point I really wish we could do something different, practical reasons be damned. It's sad that as many cool, "new" things we have, some of the core, basic ideas and goals are implemented so poorly and we are effectively stuck with them. This is one reason I hate that almost all software and hardware projects are so rushed, and that standards bodies are the opposite, but with only the bad things carried over. The cost of our bad decisions often weighs for much longer than anyone could imagine, just ask anyone who has designed a programming language or something major in software ecosystems.

As much as I enjoy all the new, shiny stuff, it makes me sad thinking about BBSs and old protocols Gopher that represented the old guard, alternate routes, and the fact that we really haven't come that far. Overall things of course are a lot better, but in many ways I often feel like we're treating the symptoms and not the cause or just going around in circles.

I could go on, but the rant would be novel length.

Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by wvenable on Friday October 07, 2016 @02:39PM (#12662928)
I find it super disappointing that Android, from an operating systems perspective, is so terrible. It's the newest popular operating system but it's no better than Windows, iOS, or Linux. It's a mess of passable API's, average security, etc. Rushed to market for, of course, practical reasons.

I don't see any opportunity in the future for any person or company to take all the lessons learned in the last 50 years and build something new that takes it into account.

Same with browsers; It's only now that we kinda know what a browser really needs to be but there's no way to start from scratch with all those lessons and build a new kind of web browser. There is always going to need to be what they currently are and build on what was already done.

I understand why, but it's still kind of sad.

Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by jhall1468 on Friday October 07, 2016 @09:12AM (#12660359)
20 years ago there was exactly one multiplatform office suite, and if you think StarOffice was better than the current incarnation of Google Apps I'm not sure how to respond to that outside of laughter.
Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by wvenable on Friday October 07, 2016 @02:32PM (#12662867)
I also kind of question whether or not a web-based office suite is truly multiplatform. For the most part, it doesn't interact with my desktop so it's really a single platform.

It's almost like saying Microsoft Word is cross-platform because I can RDP into a Windows machine from Linux. It's not really part of Linux, it needs a client to access an application running on a remote server. The only difference is how complex the client is.

Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by wvenable on Friday October 07, 2016 @10:21AM (#12660841)
Is the web browser the best technology to achieve "multiplatform" for an office suite? It makes sense from a purely practical sense but technologically it's pretty terrible.
Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by jhall1468 on Friday October 07, 2016 @11:29AM (#12661412)
Practicality wins pretty handedly here. Technology will always improve and web based applications will become more and more feasible as a result.

The flip side of that equation is that poor practical choices never improve because there will only be more platforms to target.

If we made development decisions based on technological constraints alone, how is it supposed to improve?

Re:Reflections of an “Old” Programmer by mattmanser on Friday October 07, 2016 @11:43AM (#12661524)
I wrote pivot table functionality in XSLT and XML for IE6. Pretty much 10 years ago. It's not that you couldn't do it, it was that it wasn't worth it.

Your whole multiplatform thing is disingenuous because back then there really was only 1 platform. Windows. So you've conveniently forgotten about the lotus suite, etc.

I also think you're vastly overestimating how far we've come in that timespan. Like v8 was pretty much 95% of the improvements, simply because you could do more than 1000 loops in JavaScript without killing the browser.

And yet today it is still harder to make a decent web app than it was in VB6 15 years ago.