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Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by coldtea on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @04:14PM (#12647397)
>No standard update mechanism

Sparkle is the de-facto standard used by almost all apps.

>no standard uninstall mechanism

Deleting the .app file would do that for most apps. The config files might be handy to keep around if you re-install (and are inert anyway), else it's pretty easy to remove those too. It would be nice for the OS to be able to track "all files installed by an app" though in case those are installed by an installer (and thus, are not self-contained in the .app folder).

>and going from "I have this .dmg/.zip file in my downloads folder" to "I'm running this app from my Applications folder and don't have any leftovers in my downloads folder" is several non-obvious steps.

It's a few steps, but its still as obvious as things get in computing. If users can't manage that, how they'd manage USING the app?

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by wlesieutre on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @04:26PM (#12647506)
I have known several people who were otherwise pretty competent computer users but would download a DMG, mount it, and run the app from the disk image every time.

There's a reason so many downloads include a custom background image with a big "DRAG ME TO THE APPLICATIONS FOLDER" message and an arrow pointed to a /Applications alias. This is such a common use case that I don't understand why Apple didn't just make a "This disk image is an installer" flag, and automatically prompt the user with "Do you want to install this to the Applications folder?"

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by coldtea on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @04:30PM (#12647544)
>I have known several people who were otherwise pretty competent computer users but would download a DMG, mount it, and run the app from the disk image every time.

Perhaps, but they just need to be told once what to do, and it's dead easy. Having an installer is not that more intuitive -- they'd still have to be shown how to use their first one.

>This is such a common use case that I don't understand why Apple didn't just make a "This disk image is an installer" flag, and automatically prompt the user with "Do you want to install this to the Applications folder?"

Yeah, some apps do it automatically when opened from the DMG.

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by stuaxo on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @04:59PM (#12647807)
I know a couple of people who do this, and tried to explain - but they are happy the way they are.
Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by wlesieutre on Thursday October 06, 2016 @10:10AM (#12652551)
The goal of an installer would be that when someone fumbles through an installation for the first time with no guidance, the correct path is more obvious than the incorrect one.

The reason it's a problem now is that screwing it up is easier than doing it right, and unless the DMG's author manually added it, there's not even a hint that you should do something other than open the image and run it from there.

IMO the "some apps do it automatically" is even worse because it's inconsistent. Some apps will do it automatically and teach you that it's the way to get things installed, and then the rest of your apps won't. If checking on run and offering to move is the solution, it ought to be standardized systemwide so that users can (correctly) learn to expect it.

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by JadeNB on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @06:48PM (#12648633)
> I have known several people who were otherwise pretty competent computer users but would download a DMG, mount it, and run the app from the disk image every time.

Is there anything particularly wrong with doing this? I know that it's not the typical use scenario, but it doesn't seem like it causes any problems, and it's dead easy even for people for whom the correct procedure is hard.

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by brazzledazzle on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @10:25PM (#12649748)
If they leave it in their Downloads directory and clean it out without realizing what that really means that could be a problem.
Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by mhurron on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @05:11PM (#12647932)
> run the app from the disk image every time.

So mush nostalgia.

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by wruza on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @05:55PM (#12648274)
>"Do you want to install this to the Applications folder?"

This is a sort of question that makes me hate windows. Do you want to browse files or play music? Do you want to uninstall program? Do you want to change that setting? You have unused icons, so I decided to install updates now, you can't stop me. Oh, come on!

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by wlesieutre on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @06:46PM (#12648618)
There are a million ways it could be implemented, I didn't mean to suggest that's the only one.

For a more Mac-like method, make it a special Finder mode where instead of showing the directory contents, installer DMGs display a big icon of the app with an Install button under it.

If you really want to get at the files directly, right clicking in the DMG could give a "Show disk image contents" item similar to how app packages are handled. Right clicking on the big application icon would include an "Open" item to circumvent installation and execute from the disk image.

Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by xkcd-sucks on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @11:29PM (#12650034)
Config files aren't inert and can be terribly problematic if you're reinstalling to fix broken config files. Case in point updating graphics card in linux, those random nodejs apps that leave broken symlinks everywhere, and the windows registry
Re:Apple Has Removed Dash from the App Store by coredog64 on Wednesday October 05, 2016 @06:34PM (#12648552)
There are plenty of popular, non-trivial apps that install via a .pkg file.