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Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @04:07PM (#12630881)
It's hardly bizarre, but it's not put in terms of cortical development either. It is however a bit of, "Give me a girl at an impressionable age, and she will be mine for life."

Ignoring that reality, and why 12 year olds are more likely to pick up a machete than a 30 year old, is what's bizarre.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by linkregister on Monday October 03, 2016 @04:24PM (#12631014)
Is it true that 12 year olds are more likely to pick up a machete than 30 year olds?
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by frandroid on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:09PM (#12631344)
Well, trigger warning: discussion of child soldier recruitment, and deadly violence.

Recruitment of child soldiers usually involves drugging the targets. 12 year olds are probably less susceptible to be able to realize that they're being drugged and to have the mental fortitude to retain their self through the grooming process. I suspect that even when drugged, a 30 year old will have a better sense of being drugged and is less likely to be brainwashed. There are also other shock-inducing factors that have a greater dislocating impact on 12 year olds, such as killing their parents (both it happening in front of them, and/or in some cases, them being forced to do it as part of the indoctrination process). I suspect that a 30 year old would be more likely to channel their anger at the "recruiter" than a 12 year old would.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by infinite8s on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @06:36AM (#12634512)
That is atrocious. Do you have any citations to back those up?
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sidlls on Monday October 03, 2016 @04:37PM (#12631101)
Humans are beastly, violent primates with marginal cognitive advantages over our cousins. Empathy is learned. I don't know if a 12 year old is more likely to kill than a 30 year old, but the former certainly has had much less social normalization toward empathy than the older one, other things being equal.

Also kids are easily guided to do just about anything. They're easily impressed and even the brightest lack the experience to temper their judgement of what is a good idea versus what isn't.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by djtriptych on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:18PM (#12631418)
No, healthy people are born with empathy. Which is why childhood animal mutilation is a standard test for sociopathy.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sidlls on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:36PM (#12631548)
No, healthy people learn empathy, they aren't born being empathetic. They should learn it very early, and certainly should demonstrate some empathy by the time pre-K rolls around.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sqeaky on Monday October 03, 2016 @06:37PM (#12631945)
This back and forth sounds a great deal like "NO U" being shouted on 4chan.

Are there any sources, papers or studies indicating whether it is learned, innate or both?

Sources and empiricism are what we should be resorting to, not down-votes.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @07:14PM (#12632152)
You're not going to find a lot of people jumping through that hoop, given that 5 seconds with Google is all that it takes. This isn't some controversial developmental theory, and this isn't a formal debate.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sqeaky on Monday October 03, 2016 @08:55PM (#12632600)
I am not taking sides. I may even have done some reading up already, but I want to remain neutral.

I want to know why the people going back and forth think one way or the other. If I rely on my own research I might not get the nuance that a psychologist or other person with a vested interest would be able to share.

There seems a great deal smoke but no light in this discussion. This is uncommon here on hacker news, normally sources are appreciated and I frequently see them brought in well before an argument begins, even on extremely casual topics. They often earn an few upvotes too.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @09:12PM (#12632660)
Then shed some light on it, don't spend a handful of posts complaining about it while cryptically suggesting the value of your own neutrality and what you might or might not know. Again, this isn't a controversial topic, and just a case of one poster who didn't seem to know about the topic in general, as indicated by believing that one aspect of the Macdonald triad being diagnostic for a child.

So again, if you want to add to the discussion, add to it, don't try to control it.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by mcguire on Monday October 03, 2016 @09:36PM (#12632739)
As a general rule, in scientific circles anyway, the person making an assertion is the one who gets to support it. Asking "Why do you believe that?" is always valid.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by Retric on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @01:08AM (#12633453)
[citation needed], people generally need to pass a crank test or be ignored as not worth the effort of speaking to.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sqeaky on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @12:42PM (#12636837)
In this context someone explaining themselves would be nice, even without citations (they would be nice though). Instead I was getting downvotes for asking "why" just with a few more words.

At the moment there is no reason to believe either side and plenty of reasons to dismiss both, not as cranks, but at least as cranky.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by Retric on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @05:02PM (#12639453)
/I assume the thread is dead so..

Complaining on a form inherently lowers it's quality. As a rule Down-vote, Flag, or say nothing don't clutter up HN with posts that make for poor reading.

And yes, mass downvoting both sides of a thread is often better than getting in the middle of a heated debate.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @07:49PM (#12640592)
Given that this is your response, and you've chosen not to shed some light on the subject yourself, the options left to describe your motives are not positive.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @10:01PM (#12632826)
That question was asked, and answered by several people. "Why do you think that?" and "You haven't cited to my satisfaction, although I've done my research... which I'm not sharing for... reasons..." isn't the same thing at all.

Lets not pretend that it is.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by sqeaky on Monday October 03, 2016 @07:05PM (#12632103)
A down-vote instead of a link, I don't know what I expected.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by djtriptych on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @07:10PM (#12640395)
It's a complex emotion, and we don't have good tests to measure any but the most basic emotions in infants. But we do have good indicators that 12 month old babies show empathy.

As well as dogs. Dogs have empathy, even for humans.

So yeah, the idea that an 18 year old is struggling with an emotion that babies and dogs don't have much trouble with is a silly proclamation IMO.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:36PM (#12631549)
It's not a test, it's not diagnostic, it's part of a hypothetical triad of indicators, in the context of an adult's childhood history. You can't even diagnose a child as antisocial, at best you'd have "Conduct Disorder".
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by dragonwriter on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:24PM (#12631467)
> No, healthy people are born with empathy.

Most of the reading I've done seems to suggest that that's something that's developed at a very young age, and very sensitive to early childhood environment, rather something people are born with.

Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by djtriptych on Monday October 03, 2016 @05:34PM (#12631533)
It's a normal part of childhood development. The original comment suggests that hate is inborn and empathy is learned - no real evidence for that.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by Retric on Tuesday October 04, 2016 @01:11AM (#12633457)
Empathy is a far more complex emotion.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by djtriptych on Friday October 07, 2016 @01:30PM (#12662372)
Dogs have empathy.
Re:A kidney donor at 18 now regrets it by M_Grey on Monday October 03, 2016 @04:34PM (#12631082)
In a general context, or in the context of what we're talking about here? In general, I don't know, in context... yes. You can get most kids on board with almost anything, and those you can't, you can generally abuse or otherwise force to submit. They're not set in their ways, they don't have as clear a sense of the world, and their impulse control usually stinks.

There's a reason that everyone, for better or worse, wants to get to kids early, and often. Advertisers, religions, people trying to teach kids how to deal with advertisers and religions, militaries, etc... all see the value in "getting them young."