News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by briholt on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:43PM (#12565962)
Agreed on poor finances. But Twitter has one thing that no one else has - they are in the center of the zeitgeist. Every political candidate is on Twitter. Every news network discusses Twitter happenings everyday. NFL broadcasts list players' Twitter handles. Half the commercials on TV advertise hashtags. South Park just did a whole episode about Twitter. The cost to embed your brand in the minds of Americans like that would be far greater than $10B. The question is can some larger company capitalize on that mindshare.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by skewart on Friday September 23, 2016 @06:57PM (#12568523)
This. Also, not only does Twitter have great brand recognition but also individual tweets can have far greater reach than Twitter's user numbers might suggest. A lot of non-users see Tweets - embedded in news stories, shared around the internet, or shown on TV. And lots of non-users hear about things that happen on Twitter.

That said, while that brand recognition and reach is scarce and hard to reproduce, it's not necessarily something anyone would want to pay a lot of money for. How would anyone monetize it? Twitter can't really control how many non-users see a tweet.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by panarky on Saturday September 24, 2016 @12:42AM (#12569486)
Problem #1: 90% of Twitter is shit [1]

Problem #2: It's expensive to support millions of users who post shit

Problem #3: Twitter's revenue base is too small for its cost base

Solution: Eliminate advertising and charge $20 per 1000 tweets. Free to read, costs a tiny bit to tweet.

People who post shit will disappear. People who have an audience and something to say won't bat an eye at this low cost.

If this weeds out 80% of the shit while keeping 80% of the good stuff, Twitter will simultaneously shrink their costs while growing revenues to become a sustainable business.

With this model, Twitter is a $1 billion per year profitable business [2] with a much higher signal-to-noise ratio. [3]

Improve the signal-to-noise ratio and Twitter becomes THE place to be for all kinds of communities. That means a return to growth and higher rates per 1000 tweets.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

[2] Start with 200 billion tweets per year. 90% are shit, and 80% of these go away, leaving 36 billion shitty tweets. 10% are good, and 80% of these stay, leaving 16 billion good tweets. 52 billion tweets in total, monetized at $20 per thousand is a billion bucks a year.

[3] Signal-to-noise ratio before is 1:9, after it's 1:2.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by nowprovision on Saturday September 24, 2016 @01:53AM (#12569655)
Disagree, I don't follow people who "post shit", I follow a few hundred people in the tech space (developers, devops, VCs, CTOs etc..) that I think are interesting (and dont post shit) and thus my twitter feed has very little overall shit. You curate your own feed based on who you follow, if you don't want to listen to whiney SJWs, or people twisting every word of Hillary or Trump then don't follow them (or unfollow them)..
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by kalleboo on Saturday September 24, 2016 @05:17AM (#12570203)
> Problem #2: It's expensive to support millions of users who post shit

Is it? I always assumed all their money was plowed into moonshot development to try to find something, ANYTHING to make a billion dollar company (stuff they throw away within 12 months, like Twitter #Music)

Just supporting their core functionality could be done with a fraction of the workforce, and could probably be profitable (although it would never satisfy the investor valuation)

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by ctab on Saturday September 24, 2016 @06:05AM (#12570296)
This is beautiful.

You could add a "tip jar" to allow followers to support someone by buying Tweets for them, so that high-signal accounts would seldom have to pay that fee.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by pbosko on Saturday September 24, 2016 @04:26AM (#12570047)
Introducing mandatory charges for tweeting will probably hurt their user base and they'll lose some value. But they could always make a combined approach, having first 5 to X tweets per month for free.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by thehenster on Monday September 26, 2016 @01:38PM (#12583862)
Interesting idea. Would you charge the same amount in poorer countries? Twitter's multicultural/multilingual user base is such a good thing.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by evo_9 on Saturday September 24, 2016 @03:40AM (#12569913)
You may not agree with this comment but it's intelligent and well argued. Seriously stop down voting on knee-jerk bullshit reactions.

If you disagree and feel strong enough about it to do that, post a comment like nowprovision did.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by andy_ppp on Friday September 23, 2016 @11:09PM (#12569254)
Maybe popular tweets inline with and advertisers brand could be sponsored; "@jonwhoever from Colorado tweets 'I have never had such a popular tweet about the mobile phone industry' brought to you by blackberry".

I'm only slightly not serious about this :-)

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by orblivion on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:58PM (#12566085)
Oddball idea: If all these news outlets, and other organizations, benefit from it, maybe they could finance it. The same way the Linux Foundation is sponsored by large tech companies.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by abc_lisper on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:13PM (#12566734)
No shit! They should charge companies and news agencies, and anyone representing companies per tweet(1k per tweet or similar). They provide a valuable service - why should they give it to corporations for free?
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by mkagenius on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:36PM (#12566917)
fb doesn't do that. Twitter can follow what fb does. Right now twitter is very light weight, un-cluttered. It can change UI/UX to advertise more. Of-course there has to be value for advertisers as well - which I think is there (350M users).
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by abc_lisper on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:58PM (#12567090)
Yeah. Twitter is a broadcasting platform. It is different from FB. FB feed has your mom and their friends' posts. Twitter doesn't, unless you explicitly ask for it. Not everything should be about advertising. Twitter can stay as it has, and just charge people with money, money.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by gaius on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:28PM (#12567293)
The feeds of both are whatever the algo thinks - which will be some compromise between what you want and what the owner of the algo wants.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by tkxxx7 on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:40PM (#12567384)
What is algorithm-driven in my twitter feed? The 'While you were away' stuff at the top? Other than that, as far as I know it's always been a chronological feed of whoever I want.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by gaius on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:58PM (#12567519)
Are you sure? http://fortune.com/2016/03/20/twitter-algorithm-social-marke...

If you don't even notice it, the algo has got you...

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by msravi on Friday September 23, 2016 @11:14PM (#12569264)
Wow, didn't know that either. But I don't "follow" people. Rather, I simply add them to different lists (finance, news, science, tech, right, left, etc.) and use tweetdeck to follow the multiple lists.

I wonder if they're also messing with the lists... In any case, as far as I can tell, I seem to be getting all the tweets of people in the list in chronological order.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by tkxxx7 on Saturday September 24, 2016 @07:48PM (#12573152)
that's a good point too, I have a couple lists I look at for close friends and such and only go onto the timeline every now and then
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by tkxxx7 on Friday September 23, 2016 @04:06PM (#12567559)
Oh, wow. Does this effect third-party clients as well? I use Echofon almost exclusively.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by gaius on Friday September 23, 2016 @04:15PM (#12567619)
I can't imagine not - would Twitter give people an easy way to avoid sponsored content etc? That's one reason they cut off all the devs.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by digi_owl on Friday September 23, 2016 @09:42PM (#12569056)
Twitter's basic problem is that they opened up to third party clients back while they were still growing, and those third party clients quickly outpaced them in new usage features.

Twitter has been trying to reign that in since (various things their official client can do is not accessible via the public APIs), but they can't just drop their third party support or they would see the usage rates dwindle in no time flat.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by Domenic_S on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:50PM (#12568228)
The tweet is the advertisement. Keep everything as it is today, but if you have 1mm+ reach per tweet, you pay $$$/tweet.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by mathattack on Friday September 23, 2016 @09:53PM (#12569088)
Outside of Bloomberg, most news organizations are struggling. They couldn't foot the bill at ten billion.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by mesh on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:29PM (#12566871)
This is a model that Line has taken, and had some success with (particular in parts of Asia and Europe).
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by nl on Friday September 23, 2016 @11:10PM (#12569257)
Um.. This is exactly what advertising is.

Twitter just has a terrible advertising platform. FB is making huge amounts on what should be basically the same product.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by home_boi on Friday September 23, 2016 @11:56PM (#12569386)
The two platforms are completely different. The users of FB (and LinkedIn) put their real information on the website, allowing advertisers to target effectively which raises the average ad value on the website. Intuitively, revenue = ad value * # impressions.

Twitter is in between anonymous forums (unfortunately they all died) and FB/LinkedIn in terms of ability of advertisers to target users. They're living off of high impressions, and they've basically already saturated the market. Now they need to somehow raise ad value, which would mean integrating hundreds of free, quality services to gather data like Google or tying Twitter accounts to real identities (like the Google+ attempt)

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by nl on Saturday September 24, 2016 @01:15AM (#12569563)
Yes, the anonymous accounts are a problem - but mostly because of the trolling, not the lack of identity. Snapchat and Instagram both have anonymous accounts and don't have a problem.

Yet Twitter has people like Kim Kardashian selling tweets for $200K/tweet[1] (so there's your measurement of ad-value), and yet Twitter can't make money.

Meanwhile, people are moving to Snapchat stories which is exactly the product Twitter should have built. Twitter, on the other-hand make the ground breaking decision to not include URLs in the 140 char tweet count.

Twitter can't ship new product.

[1] http://haveuheard.net/2015/08/kim-kardashian-how-much-money-...

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by nashadelic on Saturday September 24, 2016 @12:35AM (#12569472)
Different yes but it's not that hard to look at the people you follow, the content you consume and generate what Twitter called the "taste graph". I'm not privy to what the issues are but I feel Twitter should/could've had a lot more success in terms of ads
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by orblivion on Friday September 23, 2016 @11:38PM (#12569331)
Not necessarily. They could pay for the platform to be around just so that people are there to banter and generate content for the news programs.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by jonny_eh on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:48PM (#12567024)
I can't imagine politicians funding Twitter.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by eric_h on Friday September 23, 2016 @05:28PM (#12568107)
I most definitely saw a Trump ad in my twitter feed.

I marked it as offensive ;)

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by hyperbovine on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:43PM (#12567406)
It's true, the money only ever goes in.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by imagist on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:33PM (#12566896)
> The cost to embed your brand in the minds of Americans like that would be far greater than $10B.

Just because something costs money doesn't mean it's valuable. Being at the center of the zeitgeist definitely seems like it would be profitable, but de facto it hasn't been for 10 years, so it probably just isn't.

Being in the center of the zeitgeist isn't a substitute for making a profit.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by pc86 on Friday September 23, 2016 @12:56PM (#12566067)
There are plenty of people who use Facebook and don't use Twitter. Facebook is certainly more ubiquitous, it's just not quite as easy to tell you where someone's FB page is the way you can just have "@BarackObama" in the ticker.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by allemagne on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:14PM (#12566231)
A (somewhat less significant) number of people use Twitter and not Facebook.

Facebook seems to have a reputation of being more ubiquitous, yet creepier than Twitter.

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by emodendroket on Friday September 23, 2016 @01:33PM (#12566412)
It's a lot more than "somewhat" less significant.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by smhinsey on Friday September 23, 2016 @02:28PM (#12566868)
The way that Twitter has become so pervasive despite not really solving the profitability problem makes me think of how a lot of the original constructors of skyscrapers end up building icons and then losing their shirts and being forced to sell it to someone who ultimately sees it realize the initial promise.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by hdctambien on Friday September 23, 2016 @08:42PM (#12568901)
You could say all the same things about AOL and AOL Keywords 18 years ago...
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by JoshTriplett on Friday September 23, 2016 @09:04PM (#12568966)
You really couldn't. Yes, people who were online recognized AOL keywords the way they do URLs today, but it never had the pervasiveness that Twitter does. News channels show tweets and hashtags. A large fraction of news shows up on Twitter before it hits other sources of news. It's the platform for putting up a smoke signal, a firsthand account, or a story as it develops.

(None of which inherently makes it profitable.)

Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by freyir on Friday September 23, 2016 @07:22PM (#12568621)
Harambe's at the center of the zeitgeist. You wouldn't invest in Harambe.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by gordon_freeman on Friday September 23, 2016 @07:20PM (#12568613)
and people like Elon Musk and Tim Cook are on Twitter. It's incredibly interesting to read what they do and say day-to-day. I'd call myself a passive user because I only read notification on my phone if few of these people tweet something.
Re:Twitter may receive formal bid, suitors said to include S... by serge2k on Friday September 23, 2016 @03:51PM (#12567460)
And yet they still can't make money. They aren't growing either.